Who was Gary Taubes "worst scientist?"

(BuckRimfire) #1

I’ve heard/seen Gary Taubes quotes in which he says something like the “worst scientist” he ever met was responsible for the rise of the low-fat diet, but in the versions I know of, he didn’t name names. My guess was that he was talking about Jeremiah Stamler. Anyone know if that is correct?

(Bunny) #2

Sounds more like Ancel Keys?

”…Ancel Benjamin Keys was an American physiologist who studied the influence of diet on health. In particular, he hypothesized that dietary saturated fat causes cardiovascular heart disease and should be avoided. …” …More

So strange he still died of a heart attack (cardiac arrest)?

(BuckRimfire) #3

Keys was 100 years old, so if he wasn’t demented for a lot of those years, I would HAPPILY take that outcome!

Let’s not go down the road of attacking people for the manner of their death, like jackasses do with Atkins.

(BuckRimfire) #4

Part of the reason for my guess was that Stamler seems to have a real grudge against Taubes. Nina Teicholz quoted him as saying something like “I can’t talk to you if you’re going to bring up that Gary Taubes garbage,” IIRC.

(BuckRimfire) #5

And Taubes interest in this subject didn’t overlap the end of Keys’ life by very long, so maybe he never got to interview him?

(Bunny) #6

High fat or low fat you eat a bunch of sugar (including junk food) with that fat long-term that’s a guaranteed slam dunk you will die of a cardiac arrest if some other form of fate does not get you first!

(Bunny) #7

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(Ken) #8

Goffman is in the running, the discoverer of HDL and LDL. Too bad the wrong conclusions were drawn. He also died of Heart Disease I believe.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #9

Not really! :joy::joy::cowboy_hat_face:

(Bunny) #10

Ok stroke, same system (pipes) radial arterial, vascular calcification or a blood clot; either way (CVD, CHD) a heart attack or stroke comes from eating too much sugar (glycation; overtly glycated hemoglobin; see also nitric oxide …will determine how long you live)…lol

Ancel Keys (“Mr. Cholesterol”) The dietician who promoted the virtues of the Mediterranean diet - Obituaries: “…As the identifier and promoter of the , Dr. Ancel Keys followed his own eating advice, even to the point of living part time in Italy. But shortly before his death at 100, when asked if he attributed his longevity to the diet Keys, ever the scientist, replied: “Very likely, but no proof.” …” “…He remained highly active, walking, swimming and continuing his research at home in Minneapolis, but suffered strokes and a broken hip in his final years. …”

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Footnotes:

[1] “…A heart attack occurs when blood flow to a part of the heart is blocked, usually by a blood clot. Without oxygenated blood, the heart muscle begins to die. A stroke is a brain attack, cutting off vital blood flow and oxygen to the brain. Stroke happens when a blood vessel feeding the brain gets clogged or bursts. …” …More

(Jack Bennett) #11

I’ve heard Taubes mention that mystery scientist in a couple of different talks. I agree with you that he’s talking about Stamler.

Earlier clues:

  • rage about dietary salt - “there is no controversy about the fact that salt causes high blood pressure”
  • great pride about influencing the country to adopt a low fat diet, dietary guidelines, etc

In a more recent talk I heard this year [1], Taubes dropped some highly specific details that made me certain that it was Stamler:

  • he said that the scientist had recently celebrated his 100th birthday (Stamler was born in 1919)
  • he said that the scientist’s mentor also lived to be 100 (must be Keys)

(Yes, I am a total nerd and fanboy about the work of Gary Taubes, why do you ask?)

[1] I think this is the one but I haven’t watched it recently enough to be certain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFY0iPmzNqU

Edit: looks like my memory was good - this starts at 9:40 in the video. Youtube Transcripts are great!

09:40 the worst scientist who ever lived

09:43 one of the five worst I’d ever

09:45 interviewed who took credit for putting

09:47 us all on a low-fat diet and he gets

09:48 credit for it he celebrated his 100th

09:51 birthday a few weeks ago and his mentor

09:56 also lived to be over a hundred

(Bob M) #12

I personally think Taubes might be wrong. It might be that seed oils and PUFAs are as much or more to blame than sugar/carbs. And I still love Taubes’s work.

(Jack Bennett) #13

I like his work but I definitely acknowledge that he could be wrong (as he also does). I enjoy how he blends a great historic scan of the scientific and anthropological literature with personal reflections on his own risks and questions about “am I right about this low-carb stuff or deluding myself?”

I personally think PUFAs are a significant danger as well as white flour and sugar.

He makes a great point that some of this stuff is essentially unknowable: if Taubes keels over at age 85 due to a heart attack, and the plant-based crowd says “we told him so”, does that prove anything? Did LCHF save him from dying at 75, or would he have made it to 95 if only he had followed a McDougall-Ornish style ultra-low-fat diet? We can only glean broad patterns in a statistical sense, but we live our lives individually and play the particular hand that we’re dealt.

(Bob M) #14

I totally agree with you there. I follow this diet only because it’s cured me of so many ailments and makes me feel great. Will it make me live longer? I have no idea.

I would like to point out that Ancel Keys moved to a beautiful part of the Mediterranean. What gets me is why people ignore that maybe it’s the area in which you live: sunny, beautiful, laid back, fun, etc., and not the diet that plays a large role.

(BuckRimfire) #15

I heard that one recently, too. Definitely seems to seal the deal with those details!