Where do we draw the line? :-)


(Jacquie) #1

I’ve been a member of the forum since it started in December. I’m curious to know where on the HFLC/ LCHF continuum we draw the line or if one needs to be drawn, at all. :slight_smile: If we define keto as a process (and, I think, most of us do) and that it’s not about specific foods, what say you? For example, if someone can eat some sweet potato (not me, for the record ;-)) and stay in ketosis, can they be a member in good standing? Do you see where I’m going with this? Perhaps this post should be directed at the admins, as you folks may have a certain philosophical view for the forum and I’d love to hear it. I’m seeing some differing views posted and wondering if these folks are welcome here. Personally, I lean towards a larger tent but some clarification might help as we go forward.


#2

I think that as long as the person’s goal is ketosis and they can do that even when adding things that would otherwise be considered anti-ketogenic, it’s fine, but it crosses a line when they begin recommending anti-ketogenic principles.

In other words, it’s okay to offer n=1, anecdotal experiences even if they go against the norm, but recommending them to others would taint the intent to help as many people as possible enter a state of nutritional ketosis.

I wouldn’t ban someone for talking about CKD, but if they started consistently recommending it to others, it would start to raise some concerns for me.

Just my 2 cents.


(Jacquie) #3

I would agree with you and if what they’re saying does cross a line, we have that discussion with them. I guess my grapefruit experiment (one day with 1/2 a grapefruit with a fatty meal) would fit into that category. :slight_smile: That was my n=1 where I’ve learned that keeping carbs low and using more fat, in this case, butter, I totally stayed in ketosis and had a FBG the next day of 4.2 (75.6).


(Tom Seest) #4

I draw the line, personally, when people start talking about something being the “only way”. That is a turn off for me. It’s one thing to have “a way” for “a time”, but the body’s needs change over time. We are not a community full of robots; all with identical needs.


(Keto in Katy) #5

This post seems to be looking for a problem that doesn’t exist.


(Jacquie) #6

Tom, yes, I totally agree. :slight_smile: A lot of us are familiar with the ‘only way’ point of view, especially on some fb keto groups.


(melinda) #7

I think making the concentrated effort to stay in ketosis means you’re keto.

Everything else breaks down into subcategories. Catholics and Methodists are both Christian but they have their own rules.


(Jacquie) #8

If the objective is to be in ketosis, and we each have our own path to get there, that works for me, too! :slight_smile:


(eat more) #9

i think the “there is no rulebook” and n=1 answers the original question :slight_smile:


(I am a Dog (Dog's eat until they burst!)) #10

My wife went on Weight Watchers and got to her goal weight 15 years ago and has maintained it ever since. Whereas, I did WW and easily gained the weight back plus some (sound familiar?) After seeing her blood tests and talking to her doctor I would say she is insulin sensitive while I am insulin resistant.

She ‘tried’ LCHF but did not like it and is still scared, after 20 months, of me on LCHF, that I am going to kill myself. All 3 of her doctors she has dragged me to agree that I am doing the correct thing for me, especially after I show them my blood test from the last year!

That said, I would never expect her to join this forum and try to convince us that we are a suicide squad. So that is a BIG line.

Every once in a while we may have a newbie who was told something incorrectly and as long as they will listen to reason, and read the science to prove the point, there are no issues. If a vegan who supports Dr. McGregor’s ideas came in with no science to back him up (I have reviewed most of Dr. McGregor’s science and shook my head) then that could be another line.

I hope I didn’t ramble too much here :grinning:


(Jacquie) #11

Not rambling. :slight_smile: Your wife definitely found what works for her. WW worked for my mom many years ago, too. Keto definitely works for me. One size does not fit all, no matter what some folks may think.


(Jaidann) #12

I’m pretty new here so take this for what it’s worth to you … I come here to be with like minded people. The key for me is “like minded”. There’s a lot of things here I can’t do … like grass fed beef and butter. I have never been made to feel inferior because of it. I can’t afford all the cool kitchen toys either, but again, I’ve never felt judged for that. I do keto how I do keto. Some do it differently. All roads lead to the same end hopefully. I guess what I’m trying to get at is that as long as information shared is correct, it all should be good, right?


(Jacquie) #13

I think the one thing we all have in common here is that our goal is to be in ketosis. Defining ‘correct’ as in ‘correct information’ usually isn’t a problem. :smile:


(Brad) #14

I think keto is 3 fold, HFLC, metobolic healing and food based eliminations. I agree with the n=1,
Example: I do not recommend soy because of the inflammation that a lot of people have with it. I won’t say you can’t, but if asked I won’t recommend it.


(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #15

Sorry, what’s CKD? (As an ex systems programmer on IBM & compatible mainframe systems, my brain can only come up with “Count-Key-Data”! :slight_smile: ).

(former “green (or yellow) [reference] card” holders shout out here… :slight_smile: ).


(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #16

It’s always useful to be reminded that there are people like this, and for them, what we say (or sometimes preach) simply does not make sense.

The other question though is how people like that managed to gain weight in the first place (I’m obviously not singling out your good lady here!). I think Ivor Cummins (+ maybe others) has described the concept of the “healthy fat” people, as well as the “sick fat” people (sadly many of us here coming in the latter category, at least until we go keto).


(Jacquie) #17

Yes. I was ‘sick thin’ (pre-diabetic). The light bulb moment came when I started keto because I started to test FBG’s and BG’s. I came from Whole30 and found starchy carbs and fruit spiked my BG. I had no other symptoms.


#18

CKD = Cyclical Ketogenic Diet

The basic idea is regular carb refeeds where the person is cycling in and out of ketosis.


#19

It’s a tricky one isn’t it? I agree with @tdseest . I think it is also important to remember who you are responding to when you put forward your views or ideas. So it would be silly to start talking about carb cycling and eating more things like sweet potatoes (even if you could do so and stay in ketosis) when responding to someone with T2D, or history of it or IR. Personally, I love the fact that we are all so different and that different things work for different people. IMO, as long as you are respectful and kind to others, you can talk about what you like.


(Richard Morris) #20

We wanted to create as big a tent as we could. Any diet that gets you into a state of ketosis is on topic.

I’m pretty much with @Brenda who says there is no keto rule book, and @tdseest that the only thing that is off limits is telling other people what worked for you is the only thing that will work for them.

Share your own experience, share science that you have found explaining your observations, help others find solutions to their problems … that’s the kind of community we were hoping to build.