When your fat stores aren't sufficient / periodized carbs


(Windmill Tilter) #21

Nice! I’m a northern Alberta survivor myself (Ft. McMurray). I like it better down south in New York where it’s nice and warm…:yum:

That very well could be the case. I don’t think anyone knows for sure. I suspect that the human dopamine response to sugar and carbs, and consequent carb addiction was an evolutionary adaptation, but even that’s a guess. How it arose is another question altogether… :+1:


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #22

Been there, too! Very similar climate, but probably hotter in the summer and colder in the winter, since LaBerge is close enough to the Pacific Ocean to be somewhat moderated. The St Elias mountains are quite a good barrier, but a lot of moist, warm air makes it over into southern Yukon.

I think all carb related metabolic capabilities in humans are ‘metabolic relics’ of our primate ancestry. We evolved from tropical herbivores. It is interesting to note that of all primates, only humans have been able to escape the tropics and colonize virtually every place on the planet. All of our primate relatives are still trapped in the tropics. Humans gave up the big guts necessary to digest cellulose in exchange for a big brain and the necessity to eat more nutrient dense meat and fat to sustain it.


(Bob M) #23

I heard an interview with a member of the Sami people, who followed reindeer. He said in the (short) summer, they would eat berries and tubers if they could, basically to fatten for the winter. Otherwise, they ate reindeer. He explained quite a few techniques they had for fermenting meat and otherwise making the meat last for as long as they could. And they had to deal with emaciated animals in the spring, so had to get fat through other techniques, such as eating the brains, eyes, etc.


(Bacon enough and time) #24

The effect of dietary fat on insulin secretion is so small as to be virtually non-existent. It is the glucose in carbohydrate that raises insulin secretion significantly, and on a high-carb diet, protein raises insulin at about half the rate of glucose. On a low-carbohydrate diet, the effect of protein on insulin secretion is compensated for by an equivalent rise in glucagon, which negates the effect of the insulin. Fat has no effect on insulin under any circumstances.

I should probably mention that we need some insulin circulating in our blood, or we will starve to death (this was the usual fate of Type I diabetics before the discovery of insulin a century ago). This is why we don’t normally worry about the effect of protein on insulin secretion, especially since protein is essential to our diet. But since insulin, among one of its multitude of jobs, is the primary fat-storage hormone, we don’t want the level in our blood to rise so high as to trap fatty acids in our fat cells. Eating as little carbohydrate as possible is what keeps insulin low, and eating in a way that allows insulin levels to drop between meals is another part of the keto eating strategy.


(Bacon enough and time) #25

Yes, this is why Dr. Fung recommends that very lean people take some source of fat while fasting. The primary rule of fasting is that if you don’t feel well while fasting, eat.


(Bacon enough and time) #26

It’s a nice question, because the figures of 4/4/9 kcal per gram of carb/protein/fat respectively are inaccurate, to begin with. I believe carbohydrate yields just under 4 (k)cals/gram, protein just over, depending on the amino acids in question (not that protein is generally used to fuel energy expenditure anyway, but still), and fats range from 6-point-something to over 10 kcal/gram, depending on which specific fatty acids are under consideration. (Sorry not to be more precise, but I’ve lost the link to that paper.) Remember, too, that food calories are kilocalories, even though we generally leave off the “kilo-” part when talking about foods and their energy content,

ETA: Another complicating factor is that the caloric values of food are determined by burning a measured quantity of the food, to see what amount of heat it gives off. It would be interesting to see just how that number relates to the amount of energy locked up in the phosphate bonds of the molecules of adenosine triphospate produced when the food is metabolised.


#27

Did you even read the studies and look at the charts?

You keep perpetrating the belief that high insulin levels are synonymous with high glucose levels.


(Jenna Ericson) #28

There was something weird about the discussion portion of that study…

If you take a quick look through the rest of the study you see that it’s basically giving examples of trials where they showed that omega-6 polyunsaturated fats caused a certain amount of insulin secretion in rats. This wouldn’t have made sense to me a few months ago, but as I learn more about these fats, I’m starting to see the bigger picture. Linoleic acid (of course) seemed to have the most effect on insulin out of the different fats. They also said that this insulin response decreased in rats fed a longer term high fat diet. In my mind, high insulin secretion is the cause of insulin resistance, and therefore the cause of type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome. My conclusion with regard to this study: polyunsaturated fats cause higher insulin secretion=bad.

However, in the discussion they said this: “Overweight and obesity are linked to insulin sensitivity and subsequently in older pets to an increased risk of developing diabetes mellitus. Studies have found that intake of polyunsaturated fatty acid is related to a lower risk of animal cardiovascular disease, hyperlipidemia, obesity and diabetes, whereas intake of saturated fatty acids and elevated free fatty acid concentrations are strongly linked to the development of animal obesity, insulin resistance and diabetes. In addition, increased intake of polyunsaturated fatty acids is associated with the improvement of animal insulin action and adiposity”

It seems like they came to the opposite conclusion I did! I don’t understand! jenna.exe is not responding!