I understand the relation between insulin and glucose.
But what’s the problem with having a small release of insulin when you have a drink with sweetener in?
I have so far been avoiding sweetener, but its really hot today and I had a diet pepsi as I couldn’t stomach any more water.
It depends on how large the insulin increase is, and that in turn depends on how insulin-resistant the person is. If you don’t notice any ill effects, then don’t worry about it.
The threshold for inhibiting fatty-acid metabolism has been measured at just under 25 μU/mL. Someone who is insulin-sensitive might be able to have a certain amount of sweetener and remain under the threshold, whereas someone else, who is more insulin-resistant, might secrete enough insulin in response to the same amount of sweetener to rise above the threshold. It’s very individual. Given that insulin is the prime fat-storage hormone, most people try to avoid foods that raise their insulin too much (a small amount is required for life; but too high a level can be damaging).
Although I switched from diet sodas to Seltzer water years before going keto, I used to enjoy a soda from time to time. But now my taste has changed so much that sodas taste far, far too sweet to be tasty.
Nothing, Insulin isn’t our enemy, quite the opposite, our enemy is chronically high insulin when it shouldn’t be. In keto circles we refer to insulin as the “fat storage hormone”, but it’s also what transports nutrient into cells as well, which is why in bodybuilding for decades people spike their post workout drinks with dextrose or maltodextrin to drive post workout nutrition into the muscles more efficiently, and it absolutely does, aside from the fact that Insulin is a growth factor, which is very beneficial after a hard workout.
Just as how fat in the presence of high sugar/carb meals actually does the bad that we were taught fat does, we know without the sugar eating fat absolutely doesn’t make us fat or clog our arteries, the context matters!
It’s much more about how long Insulin is high, and when. Same goes for blood glucose, there’s a time when it’s beneficial, there’s a time when it’s not.
On the artificial sweeteners, until you’ve identified that you actually have a problem with them, there’s really nothing wrong with them. Doesn’t mean you should be slamming diet sodas all day long, a some aren’t a problem either.
People like to have something to blame, and then they run with it. Only one I have issues with (but only in high amounts) is Erythritol, my issue was bloating, but a lot of the sugar alcohols do that. I lot of people villainize Xylitol , yet ignore that it’s natural occuring in a bunch of fruits and some veggies. Go buy what trial and error shows works with you.
@Rusty Yes, to everything posted above by @lfod14.
In particular, this point is well-taken…
We’re all different in response to various chemical/alternative sweeteners. I’ve performed a series of glucose blood tests every 30 minutes for a couple of hours before/after ingesting a large amount of (pure) stevia extract. My glucose level was flat-lined - didn’t budge. This implies no insulin spike for me in that situation.
If you really want to know how your body responds, consider conducting a similar n=1 experiment on yourself with those menu items of interest.
For me the danger isn’t an insulin/blood sugar blip (I’ve never worn a continuous glucose monitor so have no idea if I’m one who has the blip or doesn’t.) For me, the issue is SUGAR. I’m addicted. I’m addicted to the sweet taste, not just the compound C₁₂H ₂₂O₁₁, and sugar substitutes keep that monster alive. So I’ve learned to have crustless cheesecake or “mason jar ice cream” with nothing more than vanilla extract, those rare times I want dessert. (less than once a month). That’s plenty sweet for me because I stay away from sweeteners.
For a sweet beverage, a lot of ice and a twist of lime is also good. Fizzy water instead of flat water makes you feel you’re having soda pop when you aren’t. I guess you UK folks aren’t big into having ice in the freezer at all time, but you can take any little plastic container and make a little ice block of it.
The side benefit on keto to not having any sweeteners is that vegetables taste sweet. A broccoli stem is sweet, as are cucumbers and french beans. Ripe bell peppers are on the verge of too sweet. (If I can find them, I prefer them part way between green and yellow). Bulb onions are so sweet I tend to only use green onions (the green tops of new onions) for flavoring.
I’m not sure science has told us what the long-term health dangers of having chemicals like aspartame are (that they’re carcinogenic in rats at 10,000 x the dose you’re having in one drink doesn’t particularly worry me.) But if the end goal is improved health and longevity, probably the fewer food-like substances that come out of a chemical factory, the better. Seems logical.
Lustig, who understands the role of insulin as well as anyone, advises something like: “At the beginning, have them if you must, not all day long, but it’s like giving methadone to a heroin addict. The end goal is to get off sweeteners entirely.”
@Keto_Lou Yes, indeed! I ignored the “craving” effect of sweeteners, apart from their potential insulin effects. Important reminder.
(p.s. - I don’t have a CGM … my n=1 experiments were performed with multiple finger pricks… pin cushion style. And of course, it’s not really insulin that I’m measuring but serum glucose. The proxy assumption is that a material insulin response would affect (lower) my serum glucose, but that’s not an iron-clad dynamic either.)
ow! multiple finger pricks. I once ran a glucose tolerance test on myself, after consulting all my diabetic friends on the worst possible foods. I won’t name the meal I had, but think “American teen boy fave.” Blood sugar was down to 102 before 2 hours, with a meal my T2 friends said would screw them up for at least 48 hours. (Not saying the insulin wasn’t out of whack, but I had no way to test that.) Last time I’m ever going to jab myself six times in an afternoon! I guess T2D people get used to it, but it hurts.
Sounds like you’re highly insulin sensitive (same here) - a nice place to be on the metabolic spectrum!
[As for the pain of finger jabs, I found that any discomfort ended once I found a needle depth setting that was no more than needed to draw a speck of blood. Once you find that depth, there’s virtually no discomfort at all.] 
Stellar info. Thank you. This is a great forum. Normally I would get half a dozen round about comments about just not drinking any diet soda ever.
When I just wanted to understand it.
Thank you again, then really helps.
That’s some great stuff, thank you.
I got to week 4 without any soda and really fancied one today as it was so hot.
I don’t plan on even drinking them regularly, but its nice to understand what the risks and effects are if I choose to have one.
Plus, its good to know that a diet soda is still a better option than a beer if I go to a pub.
Definitely… I MISS beer! I was a craft beer snob, and for a couple year worked for a beer distributor and got it by the case for cost! But it’s literally drinking bread. Worst middle finger I ever got was when I did a food sensitivity test and learned I have a pretty respectable immune response to both brewer’s yeast AND Hops! Explained a lot!
Yowsers. Tough break. But I guess that all lead you to where you are now.
I’ve not tried any of the zero carb beers yet.
Half of me wants to try it, the other half thinks that if beer without carbs could be nice, then there wouldn’t be carbs in it to begin with.
When I allow beer, I go with Michelob Ultra. It has like 3g of carbs per 12oz. Still messes with me but on social ocassions I allow it. The taste isn’t super offensive and it gets the buzzed job done.
Yeah, an ice cold tall glass of dark beer sure would be lovely this hot summer. Instead, I’ve learned to pour myself dry red wines with dinner - and the occasional dry vodka martini with extra olives. Life is full of compromises. Tough choices.
I don’t think we have that here.
The only beer I drink is from our local brewery. But they do not even have the macros tested, so goodness knows how many carbs are in it.
Giving ot a wide berth for now.
