What's the answer for us old guys?


(Ron) #1

This is a very informative video but does raise a question about protein intake for the older generations and how to effectively achieve weight loss without increasing degeneration of normal muscle mass. As we age muscles naturally digress and I understand that, but it seems as if fallowing the ketogenic diet leaves no option without increasing older individuals muscle digression rate?

Please dispel this train of thought for me? :richard::carl:??
I want to live this WOE and lifestyle but don’t want to loose my muscles doing it. Show me the science.


(Todd Allen) #2

I disagree strongly with the idea that losing muscle mass with age is inevitable or even that it is normal. It is super common but there are exceptions. We also think it is normal to have rising blood sugar as we age and we are told diabetes and many other chronic diseases are ever more likely and will progressively get worse as we age.

I believe those mistaken ideas are somewhat related. We are told a normal healthy fasting blood sugar is between 60 and 100 mg/dl. I disagree with that too. A fasting blood sugar of 100 may not cause the acute damages we see in diabetes but it is an indicator of some degree of insulin resistance. Insulin sensitivity plays a role in muscle uptake of amino acids and protein synthesis. Higher fasting blood sugar diminishes growth hormone and IGF1. I believe elevated blood sugar and triglycerides and elevated basal insulin contribute to accumulation of visceral and intramuscular fat. Adipose tissue fat cells only live on average for 10 years despite them being optimized for fat storage. Fat anywhere else is subject to more oxidative damage from increased metabolites. Muscle cells aren’t replaced, we are born with all of the muscle cells that we will ever have. When fat accumulates in muscle it slows the rate of turnover and gets increasingly rancid. The fat in addition to being an energy buffer has vital uses such as contributing to mitochondrial membranes and hormone signaling which can accelerate metabolic derangement when the fat is damaged.

Increasing protein in the diet helps overcome diminished muscle protein synthesis which I compare to injecting insulin is beneficial for type 2 diabetics. For a while. Increasing protein like increasing insulin masks the underlying issue of diminishing insulin sensitivity but if relied on heavily is likely to accelerate the underlying problems. For long term success keep an eye on things like insulin sensitivity and intramuscular fat.

I have SBMA a genetic muscle wasting disease that typically starts causing noticeable muscle loss in ones 20s at a pace matching that of people typically 40 to 50 years older. The disease is supposedly progressive and untreatable although it has been shown the rate of decline correlates strongly with a person’s HOMA-IR score - a measure of insulin resistance. I suffered a fast rate of deterioration when my blood sugar was pre-diabetic. Now with my blood sugar mostly in the 60-75 mg/dl range I can gain muscle again. I’m 3 months shy of 54. I’m hoping over the next 30 years I can regain much of what I lost over the previous 30.


(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #3

Eat protein. That is the answer for older guys. Eat moar protein. I think professor Phillips is pretty clear about that. If you’re familiar with the larger body of his work, exercise is particularly beneficial for older folks as well.


(Brian) #4

LeCheffre pretty much said what I was thinking… Exercise and eat well.

We gotta keep the muscles working. Too often old guys quit using what they have and lose because they quit, not just because they got old.

Old guys gotta eat to. Nutrition can become a bit more challenging as we age so all the more reason to keep on top of getting good nutritious foods coming in.

My dad still chops a little firewood. He’s 94. I’ve thought for some time that the reason he can may have something to do with the fact that he chopped wood when he was 93, and 92, and 91…


(Ron) #5

brownfat,

So if I understand you’re suggesting the reason for muscle degeneration in the older generation is a symptom of other underlying chronic diseases in general and not age related?
And if these diseases are controlled then it is very possible to maintain (even rebuild and increase) muscle structure?
Increasing protein consumption will assist in the stopping or reversing diminishing muscle protein synthesis while still supporting a keto lifestyle and efforts to loose weight and reduce A1c ?

Do I have it right?


(Steve ricci ) #6

I read a study that was made and it showed that an 80 yr persons built muscle tissue as fast and a 20yr old. The issue is, joints, activity willingness to endure discomforts of excersise, hormones ect ect ect. I’m 53, still built muscle, still work out and plan to as long as i can. I strongly believe that protien has alot to do with my ability to be active. I’m 53, out perform alot of younger people at the gym. I also font look 53. I think that since I’ve always eaten high protien and low carbs my body has responded accordingly. To me its the building blocks of soft tissue and i rarely see vegans that look fit as they get older and look much older than they are.