I never worry if i am in or out of ketosis. if I have enough time between meals then i will be back in ketosis before the next meal. I say this because i am more obsessed with health and less obsessed with weight loss. And no I did not start out skinny, for sure was obese, now just fat, but soon neither.
What’s the story with onions?
Gee13167
(Jeanine)
#22
I only want to put a couple red onion slices on top of my burger and maybe on another night, in my salad. Minimal amount… just for flavor. I should worry so much
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#23
How do calories affect ketone levels? That was what you said. Obviously, if you fast for a long time, ketones go up. But if you eat consistently, how do those calories affect ketones? Now, throw some exercise in there, maybe some HIIT or intense weight lifting (or both, which is what I do, usually 2x/week in the same workout but only 1x/week of HIIT by itself). Then add in some major home construction projects. How are ketones affect by this and the calories (which go up due to exercise and down when not exercising)?
I have over 1,400 samples of blood sugar and ketones (mainly blood and breath), and I’ll be darned if I can determine how ketones are affected by pretty much anything other than fasting for multiple days. (And, of course, carbs, but that goes beyond saying.) Maybe a lot of exercise will make them go up, but usually they go down for me for HIIT + BBS (body by science, lifting to failure). I think eating higher fat might help them go up, but even that’s sketchy in terms of the data I have. I’ve also been on low carb almost 5 years, so maybe I’m just settled into a narrow range of ketones (usually between 0.5-1.0, unless I fast 3+ days).
4dml
#24
I’m not a scientist or clinician, and I don’t know the mechanism. I can only say that it does. Dr Thomas Seyfried in his book, Cancer as a Metabolic Disease talks about ketones and calories in the context of attempting to weaken mitochondria activity in tumor cells. I own the book, if you want me to pull quotes from it, let me know and I’ll take the time to do it. Dr Valter Longo has talked about it, but he’s done so many videos and podcasts I don’t remember which one I heard it.
From my own testing, I know that calories effect my ketone levels. I really like nuts. I could easily eat a pound of them in a day, it is the only food that I need to apportion out. If I eat 8 ounces (about 1500 calories) of macadamia nuts it will lower my ketone level more than if I eat only 3 ounces. I’ve done this experiment with many foods. Keeping the food the same and varying only the amount (aka calories) the more I eat, the lower my ketones. Ditto with blood glucose.
collaroygal
(KCKO, KCFO 🥥)
#25
Nuts have carbs as well as calories, you upped your carbs, so your ketones should go down.
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#26
Holy cow, that book is not cheap. I would be interested in some quotes when you get a chance.
4dml
#28
Yes they do. I’m not drinking cups of pure oil. I don’t care what impact that has on ketones because its irreverent to me. I’m mildly interested in theory, but what really matters is real world application. All real foods have some combination of fat, protein and carbs. My questions are along the lines of does eating 12 ounces of salmon lower my ketones compared to eating 4 ounces? Does eating two avocados decrease my ketones more than just one? Its about food quantity/serving sizes. That’s what I mean when I say calories matter.
4dml
#29
Yep, its really a textbook, its not geared towards us laypeople. Here are are pictures of a couple of pages. I hope the resolution is legible.
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#30
Thank you - very interesting. I just tested six hours after eating, and though my ketones were good (1.9) my BG is always higher than I want it (96). I’ve never had a problem with fasting glucose, just feel that 96 is a bit high for during the day. Sill got a decent GKI, though. I’m a work in progress! My aim is a level of ketosis high enough to ward off illness. (So I’m hoping as I get my BG lowered the ketones will at least get up into the 2’s. I’ve only been there once.)
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#31
It seems rather obvious now if you think of it as a continuum.
Eat more - eat less - IF - EF Going up (or down) each rung of the ladder causes ketones to rise and BG to fall.
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#32
There’s a difference between eating keto for cancer and for weight loss. I don’t follow the cancer rules. They’re quite difficult to achieve. If you’re concerned about cancer, fasting is best, as it lowers blood sugar and raises ketones.
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#33
Yes, I do IF at this point. It is more to see how much control I have over the carbs. Even if I stay within my allotment, dairy and nuts seem to affect my ketone levels. I have read that 3 and above is protective for many diseases. I’m just self-experimenting at this point, to find out which foods have the most impact on my ketone levels. Working on my BG as well.
4dml
#34
That’s the goal for the people in my family. None of us are trying to lose weight. One approach that has worked for us is to fast until the BG and BK are in the desired range, and then resume eating in a manner that keeps them there using a combination of LC meals, time restricted eating, intermittent fasting, and exercise.
You may also want to experiment with eliminating dairy. Its insulinogenic for a lot of folks.
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#35
Makes perfect sense. I am going to start testing my BG more than my ketones, as I will get more immediate feedback. My ketones seem to be getting higher (three days, no cheese) but BG is not low enough to create my goal for a GKI. I’ve finally gotten down to TMAD, which for me, is a small victory. I have ketone spikes every couple of weeks, and analyzing my diet has not revealed much, besides the cheese. Today I was 2.5, my 7 month all-time high. Why? The cheese? Though again, I possibly am not fat adapted and my body may not know what to do with all the extra ketones.
https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/juices-non-juice-journal-jottings/61706/123?u=regina
This is interesting.
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#36
Hey, me too! We’re trying it for the next couple of weeks, but I need to get my brain around eating twice rather than three times. Many factors involved.
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#37
It’s working (sorta) for me because I eat a huge dinner at around five. I don’t wake up hungry, so can push brunch to 10:30. Eventually I get really bad hunger pangs, drink water, and they (for the most part) go away. Here is my question. I think it was Megan Ramos who said a “meal” could take up to 90 minutes. I eat like a wolf, so my meals, to the point where I am full, last 20 minutes. 20 minutes later I feel like I could eat more, but don’t fearing it could be construed as a snack. So, to my thinking, if I have a full 90 minutes twice a day, I can eat more. I am going to work on slowing it down. I ate lunch with a friend recently. She was plodding along, finally I said: “My God, you are the slowest eater I have ever seen.” She said, yes, and you are a boa constrictor. I was embarrassed.
Edit - who am I kidding - I finish a meal in ten minutes! When I was a kid my mother said I would end up with colon polyps.
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#38
It’s the huge meal bit that odes me in. Despite my enormity, I’ve never been good at eating a lot at once. #sadly #ormaybethankfully
I don’t wake up hungry, so can push brunch to 10:30. Eventually I get really bad hunger pangs, drink water, and they (for the most part) go away.
Yeah, we never have much trouble getting to about midday. My wife is working in her office downstairs, and is crazy busy, so I kinda have to make sure this happens frequently.
Here is my question. I think it was Megan Ramos who said a “meal” could take up to 90 minutes.
Seems fair.
I eat like a wolf, so my meals, to the point where I am full, last 20 minutes. 20 minutes later I feel like I could eat more. So, to my thinking, if I have a full 90 minutes twice a day, I can eat more.
Yup.
I am going to work on slowing it down.
Was going to be my suggestion. Stops you getting ahead of your satiety signalling.
I ate lunch with a friend recently. She was plodding along, finally I said: “My God, you are the slowest eater I have ever seen.” She said, yes, and you are a boa constrictor. I was embarrassed.
Well sucked in, you opened the topic up 
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#39
Huge meal for me - tiny for other people. Example: Barbecue tonight. One hotdog. Three onion slices. Four garlic cloves, two mushrooms. I was full, then 20 minutes later asking my husband to share. But as much as I complain, I have lost the eat every five minutes thing that happens when you eat carbs. And eating slowly and actually chewing your food is way better for digestion.