What is left to eat?

(Jay Patten) #21

After a year of keto its normal for ketones to drop very low. I did keto for a long time back in the late 90’s and early 2000’s and found that high ketones are normal for beginners but steadily drop over time.

(Carol Motsinger) #22

Have you attempted intermittent fasting or extended fasting?
I have tried and failed many times. I get sooo hungry

#23

Yes, I have done both and make a big positive difference. I wonder if you are fat-adapted?

(Adrian Constant) #24

Hey just saw your post, and thought I would add that vegetable carbohydrates will NOT kick you out of ketosis and they are very important to keep your nutrient count up!

(Pete A) #25

Is this accurate?

(Lonnie Hedley) #26

No. Vegetables are not necessary.

(Lonnie Hedley) #27

Dang, you edited your post. Haha

(Carol Motsinger) #28

If after subtracting fiber there are still carbs then they do count, veggie or not, still carbs

(Pete A) #29

Tell me again what you’re saying :sunglasses:

(Lonnie Hedley) #30

@Pete_A only that you don’t need vegetables to get the nutrients you need. Sure they add variety, but for some they also add a lot of issues you don’t see when sticking to a diet where you’re only eating animal products.

(Todd Allen) #31

I found counting imprecise and overly limiting and switched to measuring results instead. For myself, 20 g of carbs from refined sugars & starches is much worse than 20 g from fruits which is worse than 20 g from starchy whole vegetables which is worse than 20 g from leafy greens. But your mileage may vary.

(Carol Motsinger) #32

TRUE, you get much more from high quality carbs but when you’re looking to break a stall lowering all carbs is important. I stopped refined sugars & starches over a year ago, stopped the low carb veggies this month to try to get a break through.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #33

When you are looking to break a stall, you can go either way, tbf. Some folks break by going the other way. If you buy the 2Dudes theory of stalls (resting BG too high for new level of insulin sensitivity), then maybe, but I’ve been able to break my 230lbs wall with more meals, change to supplement, change to exercise, removal of AS, a carb feast… all different ways to change the equation. Turbulence is my theory, and I’m sticking to it, though I see where the 2Dudes theory might be operative for folks with T2DM or on their way there.

(Pete A) #34

I don’t eat many vegetables, and most days I’m at 10-15 carbs total (before any net). My question was to the idea of unlimited “veggie carbs” when my understanding of Keto is optimally 20 carbs and under veggie or not.

#35

Most of the LC experts (especially those that have patients) advocate a well formulated LC diet includes veggies. They have been described as necessary for everything from improving gut biome, to detoxing fatty liver, to optimizing mitrochondrial health. There are a few gurus (like orthopedic surgeon Baker) who are self experimenting with zero carb diets, but I don’t know anyone who is advocating that for their patients. Not physicians like Fung, Wahls, Perlmutter, Shanahan, Westman. Not healthcare practitioners like Pompa, Mercola, Berg.

I find counting macros tedious. So I use the plate approach. The meat portion takes up 1/3 of my plate. Veggies (ie. green, cruciferous, or leafy) take up the remainder, drenched in a fatty sauce. And a side of avocado, nuts, coconut, or a fatty desert (like cheesecake).

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #36

If that works for you, that is great.

It’s a bit loosey goosey for me, but I need pretty tight structure.

#37

20g of carbs is a rule of thumb, not an optimal level. This is not a case of if less is good, lesser is gooder. The objective is to be in a state of ketosis by eating under your carb tolerance. My father and sister can eat 100g of carbs and remain in ketosis. They gain no additional benefit by restricting carbs unnecessarily. Optimal is achieved by determining your specific tolerance (via experimentation) and staying below it.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #38

Yeah, way back when folks thought Dreamfields’s marketing claims were true, I had regular days in the 80-90g carbs and kept fat burning. Whoops, but nice to know.

Man, did I lean on the Dreamfields… working up the Cauli-rice as a sub…

(Tessy M.) #39

You weren’t alone!

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #40

When the FDA came down on them, I nearly cried.