What do you think of Dr. Berg’s teachings on keto?

(Robert C) #225

7-10 cups of spinach (to make creamed spinach) or arugula sautéed go down to a cup or two and work much better in the body.

(Alex ) #226

I was firstly advised on another forum that this guy was essentially a complete charlatan and scammer - and just out there to make money from unsuspecting individuals.

The fact he comes up so often on You Tube for anything related to keto living makes me a bit nervous, and I’ve watched a few of his videos where he literally seems to be talking utter drivel, like incoherent sentences, and general waffle.

He’s not for me, but like ANYTHING online, if you approach with an open mind, then you probably wont get burned! - and everything is open to interpretation, you have to find your own answers.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #227

What really doesn’t make sense to me is that the seven cups seems to be recommended across the board - seven to ten cups for a petite woman and the same amount for a 300 pound man? Really?

(Doug) #228

His clinic has pushed some rather “extreme” stuff: :smile:

(Robert C) #229

This is a legitimate “show me the science” type criticism of an actual teaching of Dr. Berg’s (rare between the regular Berg bashings).

And a helpful post - it is something that should make us all think. Myself, I am a medium male so probably 7 to 10 cups is about right (which I sauté down to 1 or 2 - I hate big salads). But the petite woman or very large man should think about lower or higher numbers (which this post reminds us of - thanks).

(Empress of the Unexpected) #230

I read somewhere years ago (how vague is that) that the drug companies test out their recommended doses on males. That’s a scarier thought than getting too much, too little lettuce. Here is one article on the subject. Of course, I have no idea of the accuracy behind this, but if true, very disturbing.

(Robert C) #231

That is a good article - I had no idea it was preferred to keep women out of trials due to the variances they would create due to their cycles.

I think there are (at least) two factors:

  1. If a drug affects hormones - it definitely should be tested extensively on both men and women.
  2. If a drug does not affect hormones - it is more “buyer beware”. A 100 pound man should be just as weary as a 100 pound woman (both should do dosing research). I think this is natural - I think sub-5-foot, sub-100 pound women generally ignore just about all numbers (2,000 per day common calorie suggestion, portion sizes at restaurants etc.).
(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #232

. . . because he should be doing his fair share of the housework!!

Sorry, I know what you mean, but this kind of autospell error always tickles my sense of humor. :grin:

(Dan Dan) #233

The truth is out there :thinking::open_mouth::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::wink:

The USDA’s Dietary Guidelines recommend adults eat anywhere from 5 to 13 servings of fruits and vegetables per day depending on age, gender, physical activity, and overall health.

What is a serving of vegetables?

1 cup of raw vegetables
1/2 cup of cooked (roasted, steamed, etc) vegetables
1 cup of pure vegetable juice (no added fruits)
2 cups of leafy greens (lettuce, spinach, etc)
2 medium sized whole vegetables (2 medium carrots, 2 stalks of celery)
1 large whole vegetable (1 large red bell pepper)

So If we use the minimum of 5 servings = 5 cups of raw veggies or 10 cups of salad greens or half veggies and half salad greens 7.5 cups :thinking:

7.5 Cups Veggie and Greens Salad

5 oz of Spinach Greens (5 cups)
2 medium carrots
1/2 large bell pepper
1 cup broccoli

*Disclaimer: I hate salads! My ideal non-salad is a bed of mushrooms 1 cup cheese and 1 cup ranch dressing topped with olives and pineapple :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::wink:

Dr. Berg on salad (hint not what you think based on whats posted here)
(1 oz spring mix = 1 cup) :sunglasses:

(Karim Wassef) #234

Dr Berg was the first resource in my understanding of keto and ketones. I like him because the majority of his vids do line up with other sources well and he makes an effort at simplifying things so anyone can get to a path of understanding and learning.

Science is never an open and shut case. It is usually a precedent to more and better science… the question is whether it’s useful or harmful. I find his vids useful.

Does he make money off supplements? Yes. That’s how he earns a living. Does he doctor up the science to sell it- I have no evidence of that.

On forums, we share n=1 experiences … maybe including friends and relatives… but a video is intended to digest the science “as it is” and share it in the simplest way with the majority of people who need it. I listen to others who get equally aggressive feedback because their vids may be more contextual vs general… or just change based on the latest scientific papers…

Thomas DeLauer has this really funny frustrated vid where he just says it. Paraphrasing…“It depends on where you are and what you’re trying to do” and “the science is evolving”.

Dr Sten Ekberg is another resource who simplifies things very elegantly in my view.

Mike Mutzel does a good job connecting to the latest science too.

They’re at different levels of teaching… some need a high school teacher to make it digestible … others need there nuance of the kreb cycle, mToR and AMPK and how MCT is really absorbed…

These guys are each trying to help a fledgling community in their own way and they have products and sponsors to make a living. If you don’t like the ads, ignore it… but I think there is great benefit to the growing community with each educator who picks up that mantle.

On the water … keto is different from the SAD in its demand for electrolytes and water. There is a genuine concern in drinking too much water and not balancing electrolytes properly. This is why there are vids about “keto ended
me in the ER… I almost died”. This is probably the most legitimate danger both to the individuals and to the adoption of keto as a healthy lifestyle in my opinion. Using the “guidelines” on how much water to drink while getting into keto is a threat and Dr Berg was calling the “guideline” out.

My view is that these guys are genuinely trying to help and feed their kids. Are they perfect? No. Is the science completely understood? Never. Are they useful? Yes.

If you can help them get better with constructive feedback, then do it. :smiley:

(Doug) #235

A big issue with Berg is that he’s a Scientologist, has given several hundred thousand Dollars (at the least) to what can only be rationally called a horrible, abusive organization, has/had a high-pressure-sales approach to his clinic and for his “supplements” that are often of dubious or demonstrably no value, and pushed ridiculous, nonsense quackery like “The “Body Restoration Technique,” (“BRT”), a procedure whereby vials of distilled water containing homeopathic imprints are held over certain designated organs or body parts while the practitioner applies tactile pressure by tapping or rubbing accupressure points, allegedly to assist in restoring hormone balance and to address other symptoms," as above.

If one is not paying for largely-useless stuff or treatments (you should see the comments from patients of his clinic and the staff that used to work there) then I’d say it’s not a big deal. One can get the same or better information from other sources, however, and it’s a shame to be supporting some of the things Berg does, even if by giving his videos views.

(Karim Wassef) #236

I respect your point of view and you are entitled to vote by not watching his vids. :slight_smile:
However, I personally won’t use an individual’s personal choices to color my view of their work or contribution.
For example- I have employees who believe many different things… practice different lifestyles and make different choices… but I only look at the value they create.

To the new initiate to keto, I think Dr Berg is useful and helpful. He’s a good starting step to the learning process and many who have come to this forum (based on a review of comments) started with his vids.

When starting a revolution, we need as many productive soldiers as possible. I tend to be inclusive unless someone is causing harm. The world of greedy big Pharma, big medicine, big food, big exercise and their insidious mind washing of the carb addicted populace - that’s the real enemy. Those forces are literally causing disease, suffering and premature death.

If Dr Berg’s vids change the trajectory of even one carb addicted soul, I think it’s worth accepting the ads and his own lifestyle and belief choices as relatively harmless in comparison to the gains.

I know this isn’t popular, but it’s my 2cents :smiley:

(Doug) #237

The end justifies the means. :neutral_face:

:slightly_smiling_face: Being totally serious - you are right, Karim, many people can get positive value from Berg. I respect your point of view too, and you make excellent posts. I try not to jump on every post that mentions Berg… Sometimes I even go days without doing it. :wink:

(Omar) #238

I do not know what is Scientology but looking to Google, it does not sound bad.

#239

Watch Leah Remini’s show…scientology is bad

(Doug) #240

Omar, it’s fascinating how it came to be. Plenty of documentaries and testimony on how it really is pretty bad, however.

Yet it really is a side-issue with Berg, unless it really matters to us.

(Running from stupidity) #241

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

(Omar) #242

@Meerkatsandy

I did

I listened to her with Larry king. maybe scientology is bad but She was not convincing at all. as a matter of fact she looked suspicious to me.

so I am assuming it is relegion competition.

@OldDoug

I agree

But many people in this thread use the fact that Dr Berg is scientology member to discredit him.

(Doug) #243

Omar, I read what some people had to say - patients of Berg or members of their families, and people who have worked in Berg’s clinic in Virginia, USA. There is plenty to discredit him.

First impressions matter a lot - some people like Berg, and after that are not as willing to believe/accept bad things about him.

Myself - I got a bad feeling right away, watching his videos - he just seemed creepy to me, like an undertaker, like he is one nasty individual when he’s not on camera. And of course that could just be my feelings. But in reading about him, a prevalent story does emerge.

There is a lot more to criticism of Scientology than Leah Remini - I’ve seen several documentaries and heard testimony from many people.

In the end, though - I do agree that some people have benefitted from Berg’s videos, and it’s not a big thing for me - I just like to argue, and “taking shots” at Scientologists is entirely righteous, in my opinion.

#244

Because Scientology is a straight-up cult. It meets all the legal definitions of a cult. Like, harassing and threatening its members, telling them to disconnect from family and friends who disagree with the cult, isolating them from nonbelievers, mentally and emotionally abusing them, extorting money out of them, they’re one bad day away from dishing out the Kool-aid, that’s the level of cult we’re dealing with here.