This makes a lot of sense in the evolutionary perspectiive. If we’re going to require some small amount of glucose it’s far better to have an onboard mechanism to generate it rather than depend on eating it in an environment where edible glucose was scarce. At the same time, it was advantageous to have an antagonist that stored it when it was available.
woah, I never said I was worried about eating fat due to insulin response! I was just saying that you tend to disregard entirely, whereas I am implying that may be a bit too simplistic. Re: Bikman and that video. I do remember now that he ended the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3fO5aTD6JU at minute 30ish noting that people who on keto have higher I/G ratios due to metabolic issues (like T2D) might want to consider limiting protein until they resolve some of the insulin resistance, because they may have a greater effect due to starting at such an elevated ratio, whereas metabolic healthy people on Low carb are probably fine eating as much protein as desired (very end iirc as a conclusion)
No worries; I was just taking your comment to the logical extreme. Since fat has the very least insulin response of all foods, and it’s just the minimum required to sustain life, it tickled my sense of humour that you made a point of mentioning it.
The point of Prof. Bikman’s that you mention is well-taken, since protein does have a significant insulin response, unlike fat. And since he makes such a point of the glucagon response in a low-carb milieu, I guess if he has a concern, we should pay attention.
I found what might be the answer we’re looking for in The Complete Book of Ketones by Mary T. Newport MD. From p. 144:
During starvation, about 80 grams of glucose is produced daily by the internal organs, of which about 10-11 grams come from ketones, 35-40 grams from recycled lactate and pyruvate, 20 grams from the glycerol backbone of fatty acids, and the remaining 15-20 grams from amino acids, mainly alanine but also glutamine.
Her references are Owen, Cahill, et al 1967 and 2005
Below is a post from Amber circa 2013 where she thought exercise was helping her get more ketones without protein restriction. I’m finding that cardio exercise is helping me manage my high-ish fasting glucose and maybe on the margin can contribute to higher ketones. All else equal, if my morning blood sugar is like 115 my ketones will be low. My cardio is a mix of low intensity steady-state with some “sprints” - i do this on an indoor bike. Theoretically at least is should be the sprints that burn more glucose.
What i think i’m pretty sure of (although it can be hard to be sure of much!) is that my morning ketones have dropped since I have become more weight stable. But I can get them up simply by drinking coffee with HWC. If I want to be extra fancy I can have some MCT oil. But I naturally tend toward OMAD so sometimes question if I should just drink black coffee and get the full benefit of fasting. Unfortunately the “benefits” aren’t measurable. I definitely have more energy if I just consume some fat in the morning. I’m leaning back towards a protocol of “fat fasting” until dinner.
It is hard for me to consume “enough” protein at the one meal but as someone who dabbled in bodybuilding for the past 30 years I unfortunately can never draw many conclusions about higher protein = more muscle. As a 46 year old male I suspect my testosterone levels might be more of a limiting factor in that regard than some grams/kg equation.