What do we really know about ancestral diet?


(Bunny) #61

I’m just a curious person, if the candle is being burned at both ends assuming we have a two ended candle with two wicks and the results are the same, I want to know what the heck is going on, on the other end of the candle because maybe I’m missing something? I want my diet to be the best but when I see somebody else doing the same thing in a totally different way then I want to know why it works? Lol

(Bunny) #62

…then we would be seeing a lot of dead strict whole food plant based vegetarians and the crazy thing about it they have longevity on there side and we know this because it has been studied longer.

…then I would say you are deriving your assumptions based on lay persons perspective not a scientific one.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #63

Once again, I challenge you to name an essential carbohydrate. According to you there must be at least one out there. Inquiring minds want to know.

(Bunny) #64

…yes I understand that but that is your own n=1 and could be placebo, I could eat starch and tell you it does the same thing.

No matter how much it works for you, the science does not care until we have evidence and research to back it.

But I totally understand it works for you!

(Bunny) #65

I already provided the answer to your inquiry, some how your simply not comprehending that but that’s ok, I’m sure you will figure it out eventually?

Carbohydrates from Whole Foods and the micronutrient density they contain are necessary if you want to live a long life, not just from a ”survival perspective.” As I have told you numerous times before.

The only thing that you can’t get from plants is DHA and EPA (there could be others), you cannot get that from any other source except from marine life (algae; that fish eat) or human breast milk. Chicken eggs have DHA and EPA also and they are making them so they contain more but not sure how they are doing that.

(mole person) #66

But don’t you see, your the one ignoring the evidence. If all these people are thriving on a plantless diet then your statement below is just indicative if your personal bias.

My bloodwork after a year on carnivore was stellar. Are you really suggesting that my vitamin and mineral blood markers are placebo as well as, to name just one of my conditions, a full year of remission from trigeminal neuralgia, which is considered medically to be the single most painful chronic condition humans experience?

I’m not denying the lack of science behind carnivore, but you’re ignoring that there is also no science implicating it in disease states. What there is are tens of thousands of people doing carnivore, thriving, and feeling better than they ever have before.

You are the one making a blanket statement that humans need carbohydrates.

(Bunny) #67

I‘ve watched everyone Dr. Shawn Bakers videos and still remain unconvinced because he cherry picks the science and I cannot understand why no one has approached him to study him, because he should be dead according to main stream science…lol

I have lot’s of bones to pick with main stream science also but Dr. Baker is making a fool out of himself.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #68

I eagerly await your RCT that debunks essential fatty and amino acids. :slightly_smiling_face:

(Bunny) #69

There is plenty of abundant information on how plants can provide essential fatty amino acids right at your finger tips, why would you ask me a question like that? That is just common knowledge. Obviously you didn’t do your homework?

(mole person) #70

On this we are in agreement. Shawn Baker does cherry pick the data. But that doesn’t invalidate the way of eating. He’s just one medical doctor who’s been doing it for a few years who’s clearly thriving, but his opinions are not worth much more to me than any other medical doctor with severe biases. I take everything he says with a big helping of salt.

He is, however, another observational data point adding to an ever growing pile. And, though his biases are clear, he does invite some fascinating people onto his podcast and has many very interesting discussions; albeit with heavily leading questions :roll_eyes:.

(Bunny) #71

I learn more from his guests or when he is a guest about how to eat resistant starch than I do from him…lol

When the other person mentions resistant starch he gets this blank look on his face and says nothing even though I know he wants to but he retreats for the sake of not being rude…lol

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #72

No, you have not. You just wave your hands frantically to distract from the fact you can not name an essential carbohydrate because there is none. You just don’t want to admit it.

Beautiful example of your handwaving distractions: conflating carbohydrates with micronutrients. Carbohydrates are various molecular forms of sugar, period, stop, end of story. They are fuel. That’s all. They do not contain micronutrients. Many plants contain assorted micronutrients dissolved in water trapped in the cellulose lattice that gives those plants their structure. Yes, we can dissolve out some of those micronutrients as the indigestible cellulose passes through our guts. But in no way shape or manner can you describe that a ‘micronutrient density carbohydrates contain’.

Contradicts this:

(Bunny) #73

There are many, behold the Avocado:


Behold Algae, the tasty Japanese snack…lol

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #74

I eat avocados every day during the summer. I agree they are a fine fruit that contains a lot of very desirable micros in useful amounts, but I’m not going to get sick and die if I don’t eat avocados. They are not an essential carbohydrate. You would be hard pressed to describe avocados even as a ‘source of carbohydrates’. Per 100 grams they contain 14.66 grams of fat, mostly MUFAs and PUFAs (16:1 O6:O3), 2 grams of protein, containing all essential amino acids, and 1.8 net grams of digestible carbohydrates, .66 grams of glucose, fructose and galactose and most of the rest FODMAPs (fermentable oligo-, di-, monosaccharides and polyols). The remaining 74.8 grams is water and cellulose. That’s where all the micros are dissolved.

Source 1
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Source 3

I’m not going to bother looking it up, but presume seaweed contains a host of desirable micros as well. Again, it’s protein, fat and carbs, plus water and cellulose. I’m not going to get sick and die if I don’t eat seaweed. So it’s not an essential carbohydrate.

(Bunny) #75

I would say if your not eating meat they would be an essential carbohydrate, if you were looking at it from a vegetarians perspective, you would flat out die from malnutrition? …lol

(bulkbiker) #76

Michael didn’t say they weren’t available from plants simply that they are far more bioavailable from animals.
Once again you are guilty of not reading what others have written…

(bulkbiker) #77

Obfuscation pure and simple.

(bulkbiker) #78

An Avocado is an essential carbohydrate…? Are you seriously making that claim?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #79

Even if your imaginary vegetarian ate only avocados, it’s still not an essential carbohydrate. It’s only 1.8% digestible carbs. It contains some essential fatty acids - 14.5% - and all, but small amounts, of the essential amino acids - 2%. So your imaginary vegetarian would need to eat coconut and/or palm oils to get the rest of his/her essential fatty acids and either something with more protein or a lot of avocados every day to avoid kwashiorkor. Carbs don’t mean anything.

(Bunny) #80

So it does not get fully digested? That’s your answer? That makes me wonder if only eating meat and fat if it gets fully digested…lol

That leaves me with even more perplexing questions, maybe you can answer, although I would not expect you to, due its complexity.

Let’s say for example there was no need for any dietary fatty acids other than short chained fatty acids made in the the gut?

What happens when dietary fatty acids are being absorbed directly into the fat cells of your body?

“…High levels of uric acid inside the cell cause oxidative stress inside the mitochondria. The fat switch is turned on by this oxidative stress and the body switches from a fat burning mode to fat accumulating. It turns out that fructose is a master driver of the fat switch causing fat storing and insulin resistance. …” …More

Then we have dietary sugars, what kind of fat (fatty acids) or triglycerides are being created by the dietary sugar, stored in fat cells?

And then there is nitrogen balance:

[1] Nitrogen balance: is a measure of nitrogen input minus nitrogen output. Nitrogen Balance = Nitrogen intake - Nitrogen loss. Sources of nitrogen intake include meat, dairy, eggs, nuts and legumes, and grains and cereals. Examples of nitrogen losses include urine, feces, sweat, hair, and skin. …” …More

[2] “…Amino nitrogen accounts for approximately 16% of the weight of proteins. Amino acids are required for the synthesis of body protein and other important nitrogen-containing compounds, such as creatine, peptide hormones, and some neurotransmitters. These are commonly called the essential amino acids. …More