What amount of Carbs the USDA says you should consume

(Jane) #41

So please enlighten us on your daily workout
routine that allows you to eat an entire large pizza (> 300 carbs) and still be in ketosis the next morning as you have claimed.

(Bunny) #42

Squats! With and without weights, yes it is that simple!

Talking about it is one thing, actually doing it is another?

That would break that pizza down into nothing (equivalency of 20 grams of carbs) because I’m emptying my fuel tank with on-board muscle and not depending on my liver to constantly do all the work when I seep and going into ketosis anyway as glycogen stores deplete! :grin:

#43

I liked “cauli rice” (as soon as I learned to make it, I banned it as I just couldn’t keep my net carbs below 40g with it) but it’s obviously a vegetable dish, it isn’t even remotely similar to rice… I like rice a bit, by the way, good rice is very tasty alone as well… I never liked it as a kid but my low-carb years changed things. I still almost never eat it, it’s truly very neutral, very little taste (even if it’s great) and it’s definitely bad for me in not tiny amounts but nothing was able to replace it for me until now. It’s probably impossible anyway. I simply eat other, better, tastier stuff, it’s a win.
I love many “replacements” but they don’t replace the “original” at all for me. They are totally different dishes, usually. But sometimes they are similar enough - only if I keep the important ingredients so it’s more like a new, improved version, not a replacement.

(Bob M) #44

I’ve been doing a targeted ketogenic diet lately, but I eat a few grams of carbs only after my workout, when I get hungry. I’ve been trying to keep it to 40 grams or so. The rest of the day is my normal carnivorish style of eating.

I can’t see eating a pizza (while not on vacation or as a very infrequent treat) just to replace some glycogen.

(Bunny) #45

Lol now the pizza has become the main staple of my diet :rofl: but I bet top dollar I probably could keto a real pizza every day If you pile on more protein and that would be an effortless endeavor for me.

Now move the muscle and you increase the fat burning power exponentially but even when at rest it is burning fat.

Main problem with restricting calories or restricting carbs is you lose lean body mass in the process and so many other organs have energy expenditure needs that are not being accounted for that require energy besides muscle like the brain, liver, pancreas, heart, thyroid, kidneys ect. that require calories which you need to burn body fat, although you may lose weight initially and what may sometimes seem like a long period of time; you also lost your fat burning metabolism along with it because you just burned up all your muscle and other tissues with all that fasting and calorie restrictions and then your like oh my goodness, fasting and keto is not working anymore and I’m getting fatter, so they go to only eating meat, then that quits working and then your a metabolic mess and still a insulin resistant glucose intolerant diabetic?

And the biggest mistake of them all, prepare yourself because I’m going answer million dollar question?

The thinking is? Those who do not follow a ketogenic diet are not or cannot be ketogenically fat adapted?

WRONG!

Lot’s of people already are ketogenically fat adapted and they don’t even know it! And that does not mean you have to eat a high fat animal protein diet!

A shocking revelation, yes, but that’s what you call being ‘metabolically fit!’

The human body will burn more lean body mass than it will body fat to make glucose and take your metabolism with it?

(Doug) #46

Unquestionably true, I’d say - people that don’t eat breakfast are often a good example. While it’s personal and anecdotal, 5 of my co-workers and I don’t eat in the mornings, as a rule, and rarely in the middle of the day. So we’ve got a “one meal per day” thing going, and I assume we do get into fat-burning at times, and almost always some glycogen depletion.

I bet that explains some of the variability with getting the “keto flu” if one cuts out carbs - the body is already used to burning fat more than it would be with 3 meals per day.

I’m not sure how often that’s true. I suspect it’s a pretty rare thing. When one has “a lot” of fat to burn, lean tissue losses are usually very small compared to fat loss. As one gets to “normal” weight and especially with very lean people, the ratio of lean tissue to fat consumed does increase.

I don’t know about the ‘metabolic decline’ - it’s going to vary, person by person, and it’s also a function of time. We don’t need much glucose to start with - I’m thinking it’s ~ 100 grams per day…?

Bunny, that doesn’t make it sound very good for fasting… :smile:

People that fast for very long times often show amazingly low glucose levels, like ~50 - 20 mg/dl or 2.8 - 1 mmol/L. Most of the body runs as well or better on ketones than it does on glucose, and we end up not needing or making much glucose at all.

I question how much we “lose our fat burning metabolism” - significant weight loss will mean a built-in metabolic reduction, there, certainly, but beyond that - what is really happening? Over weeks or months of fasting, some metabolic slowdown does occur, but if we’re talking about eating ketogenically and very low-carb, is the same thing to be feared?

Does anybody that’s eating very low carb actually “burn up all their muscle”? To me, this is like some unfounded fears about fasting - in practice it doesn’t actually happen. Ketogenic eating can go along with good metabolisms and plenty of muscle - isn’t this borne out by body scans and personal testimony ad infinitum?

(Bob M) #47

Then why have I gained muscle mass while on a very low carb diet? How does Shawn Baker continue to perform so spectacularly while eating “zero” carbs?

If you want to argue that it might be better to eat more carbs, say for larger muscle mass, that’s one thing. But to say the body is going to catabolize lean mass because you’re not eating carbs, that’s just wrong.

(Ron) #48

And on a public forum that is here to help people that choose to eliminate carb consumption in an effort to cure a personal ailment. Absolutely wrong in this venue IMO.

(charlie3) #49

After a year of keto I tried carnivore for 60 days. Loved the diet too much, couldn’t stop eating. Gave up after 5 pounds body fat gain.

(Bunny) #50

And not one shred of proof? I have yet to see somebody actually cure there diabetes, you ask them to prove it and they won’t?

And then you wonder why nobody believes you?

I want to see real insulin and glucose clamp studies and research?

For now it’s kind of like a magic show?

The only evidence I’ve seen is the magician eating only potato’s (lots of resistant carbs) for a short spell?

(Ron) #51

@atomicspacebunny
I have no desire to combat your ranting and as far as proof, I don’t need to search for it as I am living it. That is what is important to me.
I do however find it sad that someone who used to be so supportive of people on this forum a couple years ago, now finds it necessary to post reply’s that discourage people from proceeding forward along a path that can do nothing but help them.
Nothing here to gain, I’m out of this conversation.

(Bunny) #52

Just because I’m discussing this on a deeper level has nothing to do with my supportive angle or encouraging discouragement it is to explore the finer details.

You say you don’t need to prove anything, yet your living it, I would like to what that “it” is?

Your not eating carbs and burning fat and fat byproducts for fuel but in reality your eating just enough to control your blood sugars (diabetes) not ‘cure’ it?

Words like ‘cure’ or ‘reversal or reversed my diabetes’ are very deceptive and do not reflect the truth.

Nothing wrong with eating a certain way to control something for better health vs. saying ‘I no longer have diabetes?’

(Bunny) #53

One thing about Dr. Baker is he was already muscular or a life-long bulky muscle athlete before going carnivore and he could dam near eat what ever he wants in unlimited amounts.

He could eat pizza, donuts and candy bars every night and would be the same.

My personal opinion is he is a smaller muscular version of himself (only eating meat) and would be even more powerful and bigger if he ate carbs and more fat.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #54

Why would you say something like that as if it were true?

I thought you are all about the science.

(Bunny) #55

Because it’s true! Or you could eat 20 grams of carbs if you have little tiny muscles?

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #56

Did you mean to post this in the humor section? :grin:

(Jane) #57

Tell that to @Rgbigun and his “tiny muscles” !
:laughing:

(Jane) #58

I think it is petty of someone to downplay and somewhat discount what you guys (T2D) have managed to accomplish with diet that pharma and doctors were unable to with their treatments.

Not only did so many of you get off a lot of your meds but you HALTED the degenerative nature of the disease. Kidney failure, foot amputations, wounds that won’t heal, etc. That is just short of a miracle in my book!

(Ron) #59

Yes, accomplishing remission of diabetes is a miracle in itself and I personally have to give most of the credit to my success to the support I received from “this” forum! Thanks to all that helped me!
:heart::heart::heart:

(Jane) #60

Exactly! Especially when so many are going against the advice of their doctors. Can be very scary and the support here and all the success stories may be just what someone needs to overcome doubt and stick it out to find out for themselves.