What about all those healthy high carb low fat people?

#21

Here is one source although not where I read it originally. It might have been in some early Fung comments, I am not sure

https://books.google.com/books?id=7_sNpNk-3VcC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=okinawa+starvation+during+world+war&source=bl&ots=hxX33Uou0k&sig=UWNDbBQNOKGlLWrTaATaQzPGd7I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihy4yOqfvWAhXKPCYKHb12BmYQ6AEIbjAO#v=onepage&q=okinawa%20starvation%20during%20world%20war&f=false

#22

Please see Richard’s post above.

There is a method where you eat high carb but almost no fat. Generally under 10% total and can put diabetes in remission. See the Duke rice diet and Ornish. I would personally be starving all day long and would not be okay

(Brian) #23

I know a lot of those people who want to be high carb low fat. Though I can’t know for sure what they eat day in and day out, I do know that they’re not nearly as healthy as they’d like to think they are. Are there healthy ones? I would guess there are some. But I’d bet there are more of those who think they want to be healthy eating high carb low fat that would actually be better off trying the low carb high fat diet, especially considering that a fair number of them are on medicine for blood sugar control.

One of the problems I see there is that it’s actually a “religious” thing with many. They’re gonna be vegan or vegetarian if it kills 'em and they ARE gonna eat those carbs, there are really those who take it that far.

#24

I do, I have a cousin who is naturally thin, size 0. Her husband is also naturally thin (in their 50s) and so are their two kids. They are active and never eat red meat. She looks 10 years younger. Her entire family is thin

In my thin cousin’s case (we do not look related!) part of the reason is her father in law had his first heart attack in his 40s and she is worried about her husband’s cholesterol. They eat what is considered a healthy moderately low fat diet. Seems to work for them. Ironically, they are both in the medical field and very sharp, other than this

(Carpe salata!) #25

Possibly he is taking heaps of statins along with the carbs. He might actually be much better off on keto.

#26

I completely agree but his wife is one of the top physicians in her major metropolitan area. They are mired in the conventional

Interestingly when we talked about a mutual relative (closer to me) when I was there and I said I want to see him get his A1C under 6 (he is eating lower carb and lower fat but not keto, almost one year after a major heart attack, A1C is ok but not as good as it could be) she looked horrified and said that was too low for a T2 of his age. When I explained he is not on medication anymore because of restricting carbs she completely lost interest in the conversation, saying, thats ok then

I have barely exercised in months and have lost weight and feel great

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #27

Me too. My joints can’t take a lot of abuse anymore, so I have to be careful. I bought a bike eighteen months ago but got into a bad accident with it almost immediately, and my left arm isn’t really strong enough to go riding yet. I keep telling myself I’m getting enough exercise jumping to conclusions. (Not original, but one of my favorite lines anyway!)

But losing sixty pounds / 27 kilos just by staying off doughnuts and eating more bacon? That I can get behind!

#28

I don’t understand the mechanisms, but when folks do only potatoes (minimal fat, maybe some spices for a few days), their blood sugar numbers generally improve and they drop a few pounds. It’s not for everyone and I’m not recommending it, but it’s a real thing.

(Jim Russell) #29

I did the potato diet for about a month and lost 35 pounds, then gained it back over the next 3 months or so. The real, hardcore version of the diet is plain white potatoes, no fat or spices. Eat as much as you want. It doesn’t take very long (for me at least) to come to the point of “I’d rather not eat than eat another plain potato.”

This was just a couple of months before I switched back to very low carb/keto eating. Keto has not been as quick (I’ve lost about 35 pounds in 6 months), but it is something I can maintain nearly effortlessly.

This Aussie did the potato diet for a year and lost 120 pounds. https://www.spudfit.com/

So obviously it works for some people, but I just could not keep it up. I like food too much.

#30

This doesn’t sound like “naturally thin;” it sounds like someone who has found a way of eating and living that works for her and for her family, at least for now.
If she ate a whole bunch of garbage and stayed size 0, then - yes, naturally thin- but someone who’s careful about her food and activity and has results that she’s happy with… it might not work for you (or for me) but sounds like it’s working for her. What am I missing here?

(Jim Russell) #31

Most of the people I know who were “naturally thin” earlier in life are not so anymore in their 40s and 50s. A lifetime of beer and pizza catches up to almost everyone eventually.

(Karl L) #32

He looks ripped, but he lost his beard!

(Ross) #33

He’s a very interesting guy. Also, like our hosts here, a software developer IIRC. I miss his podcasts!!!

(Mark Rhodes) #34

and the problem with this is the assumption that these outliers are the norm just as the assumption that eating massive amounts of carbohydrates is the norm. Well it is since the invention of silos and city states.

(John) #35

A lot of people have mentioned a lot of things, I just want to throw human adaptation in the ring. A lot of people don’t think about it, but there is a wide diversity of lactose tolerance. From wiki

Overall, about 65% of people experience some form of lactose intolerance as they age past infancy, but there are significant differences between populations and regions, with rates as low as 5% among Northern Europeans and as high as more than 90% of adults in some communities of Asia.

Northern Europeans don’t have a magical diet, they have spent hundreds of years drinking milk from birth and have adapted and passed on some of these enzyme related gene expressions to their descendants. The Japanese for instance were not brought up the same way and so there is still widespread lactose intolerance. This seems to be in the same vein, a group of people whose diet consists of a very specific food from birth is better at processing it than people who weren’t.

#36

Yes, I’ve found this to be true as well.

My husband’s quite lean and I think most folks around him assume that he’s naturally thin, and that’s true in the sense that when he eats in a way that works for his metabolism, he stays lean. What many people around him now don’t know -or just seem to have forgotten- is that he was steadily gaining weight in his late 30s into his early 40s so that he had quite a belly and chin situation going on by mid 40s (I thought he looked wonderful :heart_eyes:but we’re always surprised when we look back at photos). Once he went LC he slimmed down quickly and now he probably seems from the outside like someone who couldn’t gain weight if he tried but it’s just that he’s at a balance - in food, exercise, outlook - that really works for him.

Somehow his extended family has forgotten about that earlier heaviness and is managing to maintain what seem to me to be hilariously contradictory thoughts - “He’s naturally thin” and “He eats in such a crazy way - all that butter and no bread…” (but I guess they think he can get away with the butter because he’s “naturally thin”?)

#37

Yes, I think there’s so much truth in this, and it’s why in the end we each have to find a version of keto (or whatever) that actually works for us right now. Various protein ratios, how much fasting works, carbs - if/how they fit into the picture. Personal history but also genetics play a huge role in what will work for each of us.

#38

I used to exercise quite a bit a couple of years ago and had chronic backaches. Stopped exercising and pains went away, surprise

#39

Depends how you define naturally thin. I do not think you have to define it as mainlining twinkies. Before keto, I rarely ate cookies or candy. It did not matter, if I was not careful with either carbs or calories I gained weight, I did not stay the same.

I do not think she eats junk nor does she track what she eats or count calories but she follows the food pyramid (whether intentionally or not). She is very energetic and small boned. She absolutely eats normally for her and does not deprive. They have dessert when they go out. Her entire extended family and his do not have major weight problems. Nobody. All of them have been within 5 lbs their entire adult lives (ages 45 and over), Most of them do eat meat and believe in eating from all food groups

#40

I don’t know what you’d call this … it sounds like metabolically healthy and eating in a way that supports that (for her). If we accept that different ratios and foods work somewhat differently for different people, then we don’t really need to pass judgement one way or another. I think the “naturally thin” thing irks me a bit because I think a lot of my colleagues probably assume that for me, but actually I’m practically obsessed with research and very proactive about my own health (not so much for weight because I’m happy with that, but for mood and energy etc, so the result is that folks who see me after 10 years probably think either “wow, she’s just naturally thin” or see some kind of “oh she takes care of herself and must watch every morsel that goes into her mouth” halo, and neither is accurate).

But the other thing that is clear from the outside is a kind of resentment about folks who don’t seem to struggle with their weight. I don’t think it’s good for the resenting people, because finding a natural and easy equilibrium with food is a really nice place to be and it’s something that keto generally delivers. Resentment toward folks who have something we want - deserved or no, through struggle or not- tends to slow down progress toward it in ourselves.

[Like almost everyone on here, I find it maddening that conventional wisdom has taken so many of us so far off course, and I hate fat-shaming and victim-blaming, and conventional advice re: diabetes and obesity makes me want to tear my hair out.
AND there are people who seem to do fine with higher carbs in their diet, so… I don’t know, I guess all the more power to them? It doesn’t seem like a good approach to health in the long term, but to each his/her own.]