Weight loss and diabetes

(Bryan Cleeman) #1

I am a type 1 diabetic and after 10 tens days on keto I have lost 3.8 kg.is this a good weight loss or should I be losing more? I went cold turkey with having just one meal a day.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

Get your blood sugar under control, before worrying about weight loss. You want to get to the point where you don’t need a bolus dose and can rely solely on your daily dose. For more information, check out the Type I Grit group on Facebook. They can give you better information than we can.

(Bryan Cleeman) #3

Cheers, my blood sugar readings in the past 10 days have never been better

(Richard Morris) #4

The initial weight loss after switching to a Ketogenic diet is a drawdown of hydrated glucose stores (glycogen) in the muscle and liver to keep tissue that must run on glucose (brain, red blood cells) supplied while the rest of your body is switching over from running mostly on glucose after meals to running on fat. Part of that switch is an upregulation of new glucose production in the liver that can replace dietary intake of glucose for those tissues. Glycogen stores in humans is around 3-5kg and because glucose has to be stored with a lot of water it’s commonly called water weight.

I agree with Paul about getting advice from people who specialize in type 1 diabetes who use ketogenic diets because there are some subtleties like responding to dangerous hypoglycemic excursions and runaway ketogenesis from insulin insufficiency that don’t apply to the rest of the population.

Welcome to the community tho - there are a few type 1’s in here who have been keto for many years.

(Bryan Cleeman) #5

thank you

(Butter Withaspoon) #6

Hi Bryan, well done on improved glucose control- that’s fantastic!
I happened to just listen to this episode last night featuring Professor Jake Kushner, endocrinologist, with lots to say on Type 1 Diabetes. Pretty sure it will be both encouraging and helpful. Keep us updated and I hope you have medical people to support you on this

(Bryan Cleeman) #7

cheers

#8

Of course it is! Some is going to be water but who cares? Depending on your size you may not want to go right to one meal a day. What are your current stats and where do you want to end up size wise?

(Bryan Cleeman) #9

I am 180 cm tall and currently weigh 132kg was 135.8 kg 10 days ago

(BuckRimfire) #10

Wait, what? The figure I’ve always seen is about 2000 Kcal = 500 grams of glycogen. Then a few fold greater mass of water to hydrate it, so a couple of Kg of glycogen-associated water.

Not that water loss can’t be more as the kidneys are relieved of the water-retaining effect of insulin, but that seems like that should be correctable by increased salt/fluid intake…

#11

Cool, we’re the same height and I used to weight that. This is what I can tell you from my experience. Don’t do OMAD, track your intake and figure out your TDEE the best you can, eat at a 20-30% deficit MAX! When you’re bigger you have a faster metabolic rate because you have a lot of YOU to move around. Don’t do anything that could risk that higher RMR, you want it to be as high as it can for as long as you can.

As you loose weight your RMR will lower (it’s supposed to), but you don’t want to give it an excuse by possibly under eating. I did. Fasting and under eating wrecked my RMR, made it nearly impossible to loose when I still have about 40% of my fat to lose. I had to reverse diet for a while to get my RMR back up and then it was much easier to get the rest off.

I started at 42% bodyfat, and I was at 11.7% per a DEXA a couple months ago, I’ve lost 20lbs / 9kg since then. I seriously could have been at this point a year ago if my stupidity didn’t get in my way. If you’re staying strict keto you’ll keep your diabetes happy either way and will hopefully only need close to basal amounts so that shouldn’t be an issue.

Also, eat higher protein! You don’t have to be stupid, but don’t go low either. As far as I know diabetics don’t have to worry about the protein unless you have kidney problems because of it. You have a lot more muscle than you think you do at that weight, don’t lose any more than you have to. Muscle is a great place to dispose of glucose, and more lean mass means a higher TDEE, which you absolutely want when you want to loose (or enjoy normal sized meals).

(Richard Morris) #12

Roughly 4 parts water to 1 part glycogen. 100-120g in the liver and roughly 400g in muscles. So 2.5kg

I must have got confused with pounds and kilos. Of course you are correct - couple of kilos.

(Mark Rhodes) #13

I am not sure @GoodFoodDude is still around on the Forums but you can also find him on FaceBook. Kory Seeder. Type 1 who was a distance athlete who was initially felled by his Type1 diagnosis around 2013 ish

#15

Spam content easily to say ‘go vegan’ yikes…don’t get me started on this useless post UGH HA

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #16

I wouldn’t call it “spam,” precisely, because a keto vegan diet, while difficult to maintain, might just help with diabetes.

Also, there is the Kempner rice diet, a very high-carb, very low-fat diet, which successfully reversed the Type II diabetes of a number of people. It was apparently very hard to stick to, however, so I plan to stay meat-based keto, myself.

#17

kill me please now HA

(Richard Morris) #18

Yes there is some evidence that vegan diets can be helpful to treat type 2 diabetes although the data is not as robust as the evidence base for ketogenic diets.

There is a study from the 1940s into the Kempener low salt rice and white sugar diet which was designed to treat hypertensives with kidney disease that also coincidentally reversed the type 2 diabetes in the subset of the population who were also frank type 2 diabetics. That diet is certainly vegan and not ketogenic.

The best studies into ketogenic interventions are controlled clinical trials at least 2 years long (such as Sarah Hallbergs Indiana keto study) that show a statistically significant reversal of type 2 diabetes progression in the intervention group.

It is possible to eat a ketogenic diet that is also vegetarian and essentially complete. I did it for a month and the experience was quite tolerable (but I like challenges). I had to eat eggs and dairy so the diet wasn’t vegan, more ovolactovegan. I think I did eat a few meals that month containing tuna so maybe ovolactopescatorian vegan.

As far as general vegan diets go, or in fact any diet, I believe that by removing processed food gives you more control over your nutrition levers, and given that processed food normally includes cheap inputs like sugar, flour, seed oil that pull levers in a way that is not healthy for most type 2 diabetics - that is likely a priori a good thing to do.

But for a frank type 2 diabetic who can not control their high blood glucose with insulin, pulling the control of glucose down to the low blood glucose homeostatic regulation of making new glucose on demand is the way out of their disease. And that is easiest on a ketogenic diet.