Very high ketones with breath meter

(LS Conway) #1

Not diabetic
Been doing this for several months
Been doing fine and finally got to the point that the meter read that I was in ketosis.

Problem is I rarely check anymore but have been checking some since I started my job. Normally it is at 9 or so which is good.
Yesterday it read 49! I thought mistake. Took it a little later and was still around the same.
Scared me. Didn’t feel any different. I do drink the Pruvit ketones, I didn’t yesterday and ate 3 tater tot type things to hope it would help to get some carbs.
Got home at 10 or so last night and ate some not fried stuffed jalapeños on the way.
Took the breath meter and it read one.
This morning it is at 7.

Sorry long. Why did this happen? Today I have a headache probably from eating those potatoes. Lol! Oh and very stressed from work.

(Joey) #2

@Lsconway In trying to frame a reply, I’m getting lost in what you’re trying to accomplish and what your breath meter might be telling you.

First starters, breath meters are a poor gauge for what’s going on metabolically … at best, they tell you how much of a certain ketone (not the same variant found in blood) is being exhaled, i.e., wasted as unused by your body.

I’m not sure I’d care how much ketone (specifically: acetone) I was wasting. But I’d prefer it be less - not more.

As for what you’re eating, it’s no wonder your measured levels are popping all over the map.

You’re ingesting dietary ketones (why?!) and eating tater tots (again, why?), and feeling like crap.

I appreciate that you’re under stress at work, and that can be very challenging to handle. It certainly can take its toll, both on your hormonal system (viz., insulin, cortisol), sleep, and hunger/anxiety … all of which makes for changing your eating habits extra difficult.

But by throwing all these variables into the mix, it’s nearly impossible to discern why your acetone levels detected in your breath are bouncing around.

Personally, I’d ditch the breath meter and focus on getting firmer control over everything else (food choices, work stress, perhaps exercise to improve overall metabolism/health).

Best wishes :vulcan_salute:

(LS Conway) #3

I ate the tots because I thought it would bring my ketones down. Also drank more water. I do very few carbs. Only Cramer and cheese really. Have done great and lost a lot of weight. (I don’t weigh) Been actual keto without cheating since January. I started in November but cheated during the holidays, but did lose a little weight. Have felt amazing until the last month from work. I don’t even eat the low carb breads anymore.

Just scared me because of the high reading.

And true the meter. Just I rarely check, but I haven’t been doing my 16 hour fast daily, I was just making sure.
Although there are times I fast because I just don’t have time to eat.

The drinks? They started helping so much that I have continued to use them. I add electrolytes to them too.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #4

There are three ketone bodies: acetoacetate and acetone, which are actual ketones, and β-hydroxybutyrate, which strictly speaking is not a ketone, but is made by the same process in the liver as the other two, hence the term “ketone bodies.”

All three are found in breath, urine, and blood. In the first two locations, as Joey mentions, they are being excreted, so not always a good indicator of how much the body is producing and using. The fact that our liver is making enough for us to waste is a good sign, however.

Normally acetoacetate is measured in urine, acetone in breath, and β-hydroxybutyrate in blood, because those are the easiest and cheapest for home measurement. But it is possible to measure β-hydroxybutyrate in urine, acetone in blood, and so forth, if you have the lab facilities, and I have read studies that do just that.

However, as one forum member (whose name I forget, alas!) once sort-of jokingly put it (but he had a point), the easiest way to tell if you are in ketosis is if

  1. You are keeping carb intake below 20 g/day, and

  2. You are still breathing in and out.

No measuring needed! :grin:

(Bob M) #5

If you’re drinking these, you might just be breathing more ketones out. Not a big deal, really.

(LS Conway) #6

:joy:
The high reading just scared me.
Guess I will give the meter up again. Thanks
You know that ketoxxxx word that comes up all the time.

(LS Conway) #7

Just hasn’t happened… that I know of.
Thanks
Meter done.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

Are you a Type I diabetic? Then, yes, you have to worry about dosing with insufficient insulin and slipping into diabetic ketoacidosis, in which serum β-hydroxybutyrate is 10.0 or above and you are simultaneously hyperglycaemic. The urine strips were designed to give Type I diabetics enough warning to get to the hospital in time to be treated (symptoms don’t start until β-hydroxybutyrate reaches 20.0, so you want as much warning as possible).

If you are not Type I, and your pancreas is still producing insulin, then diabetic ketoacidosis is not a concern.

There are two conditions that can produce what is called euglycaemic ketoacidosis, which is high β-hydroxybutyrate without the hyperglycaemia: one is taking an SGLT-2 inhibitor, the other is being a pregnant or lactating woman in ketosis and also trying to fast (nothing wrong with women in ketosis fasting at other times, but pregnancy and lactation are not times to be fasting!).

By the way, the definition of nutritional ketosis is serum β-hydroxybutyrate of 0.5 or higher. The definition says nothing about acetoacetate or acetone, however.

(LS Conway) #9

Not diabetic as of 4 months ago.

(Joey) #10

@Lsconway Sounds like you’re heading in a great direction. Ditch the breath meter, manage the stress, and don’t ever again try to “cure” a concern by eating carbs. :wink:

Also, consider whether eating ketones is truly necessary or even helpful given your longer term goals. Exogenous ketones can make sense as part of a rigorous cancer-treatment setting (see: Dr. Thomas Seyfried’s research) much more than for normal “everyday” keto’ers like us.

Personal view: exogenous ketones are a waste of $$ and potentially keep your body from producing what it needs on its own (again, absent need for exogenous ketones as part of a cancer treatment regimen). I’d avoid.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #11

Another case for exogenous ketones is an Alzheimer’s patient who refuses to cut the carbs.

(Joey) #12

Hadn’t known this.

I would’ve guessed that dietary carbs would reduce the efficacy of exogenous ketones being taken up by the brain to the point of being excreted rather than utilized (e.g., again, by the brain).

But I’ve not come across any research on such details. Thx!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #13

I don’t remember which study it was, anymore, but the researchers showed cognitive improvements in patients with Alzheimer’s disease, regardless of whether they were on a ketogenic diet or not. This is one of the reasons that certain researchers have begun to call Alzheimer’s disease Type III diabetes, to emphasise that it is really insulin-resistance of the brain.

To be sure, there is a point where the brain damage becomes irreversible, but even in such cases, cognitive improvement has still been seen.

There is a fascinating documentary, called The Magic Pill, that tracks a three-generation American family that goes keto, and a group of Australian aboriginals who return to their ancestral diet, which was essentially ketogenic. The son/father in the American family said it was like getting his mother back, because her dementia was essentially put into remission, and their autistic daughter also showed a marked improvement in behaviour and ability to focus. The aboriginal people also experienced a noticeable improvement in their health.

(LS Conway) #14

Yes I have seen that too.

(Joey) #15

A compelling film :+1:

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #16

That’s extraordinary! I must remember that.
https://www.everydayhealth.com/diabetes/alzheimers-disease-actually-type-diabetes/#:~:text=In%20recent%20years%2C%20the%20term,2%20diabetes%2C%20in%20the%20brain.

(LS Conway) #17

Well I figured it out. I have been drinking some cab lately and when I do the breath meter goes really high! Even the next morning. I shouldn’t be drinking at all and haven’t til recently. Does the meter just see the alcohols even the morning after. I tested it. Ketones were one. Two glasses of wine it was out the roof.