Vegetarian diet : the statistics : does not mean better liver

(Omar) #1

I have seen many famous vegetarian people with large belly. some claim that they are even on OMAD. This impression came to me from watching Buddha and Hindu monks while their waste circumference is not in proportion with their body.

Very strange to me because long time ago when people eat twice a day with zero snacks in between most people I know were quite skinny. I thought OMAD or even 16:8 even with carbs will give the body time to do away with the glucose. Otherwise why we were skinnier in the 50s and 60s at least in the middle east.

I remember Dr Fung saying when asked why people in the early last century where skinnier even when eating diet that has carbs. He said less meals and no snacks( and more active I would say). Which I can relate to as well in the middle east because if you miss a meal, you will have to wait the next meal.

or maybe this NAFLD is not understood by the medical people.

#2

But vegetarian diets are so so very different from each other. Itā€™s almost like saying ā€œhuman dietā€, it says very little about what one eats and how much and how good is it for themā€¦

I surely would be chubby on vegetarian OMAD, I donā€™t see anything strange in it. Some of us can eat a too big meal for a dayā€¦ (Okay, I would probably maintain my chubbiness and thatā€™s it as I actually have a not too crazy limit for my meals. Unless I eat the wrong things at the wrong time, maybe. But thatā€™s only some overeating that canā€™t result in fat gain for me.)

Once I met someone who overate like crazy on OMAD. TMAD worked for him but OMAD? He ended up with 4000 kcal meals and he didnā€™t have such a high energy needā€¦ So he quit.

But we donā€™t even need to eat carbs to get and especially to stay fatā€¦ Calories matter a lot. In the case of many of us, only those matter. (Maybe not exactly as we are no calorimeters but the tiny differences donā€™t matter much. If we overeat seriously, we gain, if we eat little, we lose. No matter the carb intake, basically. Well I admit I never could test what my body does on HCLF as I canā€™t eat low-fat especially not on a carby diet. I canā€™t lose fat on high-carb anyway, too much fat. I have no idea how to eat more carbs than fat :smiley: My body compels me to keep fat as my primary fuel source. My SO always lost fat on HC but he always did HFā€¦)

My anchestors probably wasnā€™t slim (skinny always makes me think of emacinated, bones and skin people) but not fat or particularly unhealthy either. They are HCHF but worked A LOT, being (not too wealthy, not too poor) peasants.
And they didnā€™t drink sodas or snacked all the time.

My SO always gains fat when he gets not very active. His satiation requires a lot of food, no matter his activity. High activity is fine, low activity means fat gain. By the way, he was vegetarian with me in the past. It doesnā€™t seem to matter in anything. Well maybe a tiny bit in protein intake but he got muscles as a vegetarian (or almost. meat 3 times a year hardly matters much) so he still got enough.
I ate way too much protein when a vegetarian, of course, itā€™s me, I eat high-protein, not adequate. Itā€™s worse with meat though :smiley: But my body is fine with it so I donā€™t worry about it (I just vaguely try to keep my protein intake as low as I comfortably can without overeating, I donā€™t want to waste precious, tasty, costly protein. I am very bad at it).
I suppose meat gives us some nice nutrients we canā€™t get enough even from our decent egg consumption, we just couldnā€™t see the difference as we are still young with good enough genetics health wise and we are even health conscious since long.

IDK what actually causes fatty liver disease but surely not meat so why would vegetarians be protected? (Okay, there might be some reason, the typical vegetarian diet have more in common but IDK why anyone thought itā€™s good against it.)

Erm sorry I got carried away while not knowing anything about fatty liver diseaseā€¦

(Omar) #3

I Agree that my definition of ā€œvegetarianismā€ maybe the source of confusion.

my definition of vegetarianism is leafy green vegetables, and legumes with little or no sweet fruits

(Edith) #4

I wonder how much of this occurs due to the unnatural foods that have worked their way into diets all around the world: preservatives, seed oils, emulsifiers, artificial flavors, and fortification - adding vitamins and minerals to foods that would not normally contain those nutrients in large quantities.

(Omar) #5

Defiantly there will be some impact.

I remember when later studies done on the Canadian Inuit, they were critiqued because they no longer have their original diets.

So there will always be suspicion studying indigenous people because there is no more indigenous can stay away from SAD and corporate America.

#6

carbs bloat. they bloat the intestinal area alot. IF ONE is eating more carbs and is super active, as in moving alot they can combat that ā€˜bloatā€™ a bit but if a MONK is just shifting in a position praying all day, that bloat is there. Alot of reasons people had ā€˜that carb bloat gutā€™ even from worms and more ya know ā€˜thru the timesā€™ in bloaty type gut pics we see.

vegetarian has swings, some go very strict on what meats they will eat while others allow ā€˜moreā€™ but call themselves that also so?? againā€¦

movement is also a massive key in eating carbs and how much intake and how much xyz and health factors and life factors and moreā€¦again I give this the ā€˜hmmā€™ kinda life issues effecting certain outcomes to it all too.

(Omar) #7

In my case they do.

On top of several issues carbs give me, they make me bloat very bad.

Green leafy vegetables contrary to what I read and contrary to most people experience, they slow my bowl movement considerably. May be because I am IBS/diverticulosis person.

I need bigger imagination to view my self as a vegetarian creature :grinning:

#8

That is a reason, he talks about how todays parents are feeding their kids snacks every 5 minutes. You go to soccer you get a snack, you come home from soccer you get a snack and so on.

The general consensus in the Low Carb world is that population wide weight gain in the US and the West it is a function of franken foods like twinkies and the demonization of fat and the glorification of sugar (a calories is a calorie is a calorie whether it comes from steak, broccoli or high fructose corn syrup so drink up!) which all started in the 1970s with the low fat high carb movement

#9

I had huge imagination, I almost could imagine myself as a near vegan :smiley: Not anymore I fear :smiley: Itā€™s a tad far from carnivore to the liking of my bodyā€¦ But I could survive on plants I am sure (almost sure). I am resilient.

Never experienced any bloating from carbs though. Just being very full as they didā€™t satiate me well but triggered some compulsive eating so I ate a ton of carbs and even more fat and lots of proteinā€¦ I enjoyed my food but now that I experienced another styles, I know better. My vegetarian low-carb and keto felt good but still not enough. Stupid carbs. Many people handle them better, they make me a bit crazy. I only can handle well a bit. And I donā€™t miss the rest, usually.

But each to their own, of course.

And there are many factors, of course the modern stuff matters, not just the modern lifestyle (well the individual lifestyle of the person in question). So many things changed and they have an effect. Even availability has an effect. I am sure most normal working people didnā€™t snack all the time, they were working and anyway, it wasnā€™t a thing to be doneā€¦ My SO is a light physical worker, he has one break in 8 hours (he doesnā€™t eat then, he eats during his dirty work as he is hungry at the ā€œwrongā€ time).
But I worked in an office, fortunately we had nothing like that break room candy store I have read about here. But we had birthdays and whatnots and whenever I got tired of my work, I just went out, drank tea or coffeeā€¦ I am not a snacking type I think so I just drank stuff, the coffee had sugar and milk thoughā€¦ That was rare, fortunately, I went for plain teas.

But if we talk about carbs, it doesnā€™t matter so much if one is vegetarian or notā€¦ People who eat meat typically consume huge amounts of carbs, even sugar. And nothing really keep people from going low-carb on a vegetarian diet I would think.

To me, a calorie is a calorie. A food item isnā€™t ONLY calorie thoughā€¦ It still can be very unhealthy or personality altering or whatever. And we need nutrients, not only ā€œcaloriesā€ anyway. And of course, we arenā€™t exactly calorimeters, we are so much more complicated so even the calories can change a bit.

Poor you folks, seriously. In my childhood (1980s) I had NO IDEA any people would be against eating high-fat. Everyone ate high-fat and considered it great around me.
I noticed the strong ā€œeat lean meat and donā€™t use any fat to make itā€ and ā€œeat plantsā€ attitude only in the last years here (even supermarket papers are full with it, itā€™s crazyā€¦ but fatty pork is always available and some are on sale so I am fine. actually, I donā€™t like the fattiest cuts, way too fatty). Of course there were some discouraging fat before but weak, that was some oh so modern dieting and staying slim girlie thing. Most people still donā€™t care though, people typically go for tasty food and donā€™t even care about healthā€¦ I feel blessed to like the right food.