Under 200 pounds (again) plus insulin

(Bob M) #1

I went to a doctor yesterday, and I’m under 200 pounds. Lost 12-15 pounds over the last 8 months or so.

But I’m (still) insulin resistant, based on any marker of insulin resistance. HOMA-IR, which is based on fasting glucose and insulin, should be below 2. Mine isn’t. Fasting insulin should be below 8 (or even lower, depending on who you follow). Mine isn’t. See below.

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(I have no idea why there’s such a difference between the HbA1c at the blood drives versus at Quest/Wherever.)

For other metrics of insulin resistance, my values are always poor using LPIR: This was 9/26/24, but they are all alike.

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I also did everything you’re not supposed to do. I ate dairy (milk, yogurt, cheese); I exercised less (not because I wanted to, but I’m having a hard time jogging with my pup due to weather and other issues); I might eat a few more carbs, eg, tomatoes and onions; I eat some chocolate with sugar.

On the other hand, I have restarted some longer fasts, I think maybe 5 times this year of 3.5-4.5 days. I also usually eat 2 meals a day, but will eat one meal a day on the days I have to drive to work, 2 days a week.

But how am I losing weight if my fasting insulin is high and I’m “insulin resistant” by all metrics?

EVERY keto guru says that high fasting insulin means you can’t lose weight and you’re hungry. But I’m not. Are they wrong?

(Though I DO get hungry when I eat – I can be not hungry AT ALL, and start eating dinner, say of beef, and I’ll end up eating a normal to large meal because I get hungry.)

(Niko Neko) #2

I’ve been pondering this as well. I believe they are wrong, and predict they’ll have to adjust if not change the model of how type II diabetes works from a primary focus on the pancreas to maybe focusing on the liver. I had that all mapped out last night as I was falling asleep, I thought, I think they’re wrong about the insulin resistance hypothesis, and it made a lot of sense as I drifted off to sleep, but I can’t recall my points this afternoon.

I’m unfamiliar with LPIR as a test - I haven’t had that one. Is that the insulin resistance?

Have you thought about a dog stroller for your pup? I have been wanting a pet stroller super bad to go jogging with, even though I have cats (who would hate it - with a passion) and strollers are stupid expensive, but they look like a lot of fun. Not so much of a recommendation as a dream of mine, haha

I haven’t been getting out much and getting exercise, a lot of wildfire smoke here and it is hot. I’ve really stalled lately.

(Niko Neko) #3

Oh and congrats on the weight loss! That’s terrific!

(S O) #4

Yeah, nice work getting under 200 lbs. :+1:

#5

YUP!

Outside of the keto world people don’t know or care about insulin, or carbs at all. When they consistently eat at a caloric deficit, they lose. Don’t forget about the weight lost on the Twinkie Diet done just to prove a point.

Plus, a fasting number is one number at one point. Then there’s the actual entire day that matters a hell of a lot more.

All the different factors matter, but some are way overblown, and some are wrongly minimized.

Welcome to why I’m on GLP-1’s! Once I eat, better not get in my way! If for some reason I don’t eat, 5,6,7,10 hours, no problem. But thinking that was a positive is also why I was awesome at fasting, which lost a ton of muscle for me and made my already crap metabolic rate at the time even worse.

#6

Hunger/satiation is so very individual that we hardly can say general facts about it. Yep, surely they aren’t right in each and every case, you experience that.
Can’t say anything smart about the fasting insulin vs fat-loss thing.

Congrats!

(S O) #7

I have noticed psyllium husk makes me feel full and I almost have to work to reach my protein goal when I use it.

(Bob M) #8

@NikoNeko The LPIR test uses blood lipids like sizes of HDL and LDL. They tested people who were not insulin resistant and people who were (where they measured “insulin resistance” a few different ways), and came up with a “formula” for this. I always score poorly, particularly because my HDL sizes/particles/whatever they are measuring are pegged to the “bad” region. Not sure why.

The dog stroller is a good idea. My dog HATES the heat. But the last few times I was thinking of jogging with her, it was too humid/hot even for me.

@lfod14 What got me fasting again was that I was basically bombarded with “too high of an insulin means you’re hungry and you can’t lose weight.” And the recommendations for fasting insulin are low, like <8 or so. Bikman, Fung, so many others. The main way I’ve found to lower insulin is via fasting. I’m mainly doing 3.5 day fasts, trying for once a month. I do two OMADs, but only because I go to work and waste 2.5 hours driving. I don’t eat lunch and get some of that back.

I hear you about the GLP-1s. I’m thinking of trying one of those, but I might wait until the fancier ones that hit 2-3 different hormones come out.

@S_o Interesting about the psyllium husk. I tried inulin, which is a prebiotic fiber, however some people (me) get their liver damaged by it. My lipids went wacky and my liver enzymes went higher. I doubt physillium husk is the same though. I may have to see if my wife has some to try.

(Jane) #9

My hubby told me they are working on a shot to increase your metabolism. I wrecked mine yo-yo dieting for years and now I eat almost half the calories my husband eats and only weigh 10-15 lbs less and can fit into each other’s jeans. We get the same amount of exercise. Been that way for the 21 years we have been married. Not fair, but then life isn’t LOL.

#10

Tirzipatide (Mounjaro) Is GLP-1 and GIP, Retatrutide is GLP-1, GIP, and Glucagon. You can get both of those now.

I’m currently trying Retatrutide just to see the difference. More or less seems the same as Tirz to me, but in the trials Reta is the best for fat loss. My wife has awesome glucose levels on it when nothing else was working.

There’s 2 different 4-ways, one has all of the above plus IGF-1, the other added Cargillintide.

(Niko Neko) #11

My husband went on a GLP-1 and his T levels went to zilch. Almost 0. His muscle loss = a human marshmallow. Meanwhile he has a smart watch and his sleep recovery rate went from kinda normal down to 5%. His mental lapses though freaked me out the worst because he does engineering and tech and suddenly he would forget to do the math on a problem or measure – that was so unheard of and profound I can’t over state it, and his job involves tens of thousands of dollars in equipment and you have to be exact with details. He fought me tooth and nail to stay on it and thought I was lying about it affecting him.

One time he just stood in the middle of our living room eating a cookie he had bought in a large batch from Costco and said, “man, I miss real food.” In his brain he was dieting and going without - in real life where I was stranded, man was eating like a raccoon for the winter. His body odor also changed along with his personality.

Over the course of the year he tried two GLP-1’s. I think it’s rat poison but that’s just my take. It hurt my #1 so I’m not a fan.

(Edith) #12

Have you looked into things like stress level, sleep apnea, and sleep quality possibly causing higher insulin levels?

#13

Did he ever pay attention to his levels prior? I’ve been using GLP-1’s years before normal people even knew what they were, as were tons of biohackers and bodybuilders and I follow all this stuff very closely and this is the first time I’ve ever heard of that happening.

If he started taking them right at the beginning when Ozempic was getting big, it’s highly likely he was being overdosed which can screw with people pretty bad, they don’t do that anymore but dropping test is weird either way.

(Niko Neko) #14

Yes, he had his hormones tested prior to taking GLP-1

We have a really good doctor who was conservative on dosing and emphasized slow weight loss. She said she thought his case was unusual.