Unable to utilise ketones?

#1

Hi there
Are there some people who even when long term keto adapted and burning fat can still not utilise ketones for energy ( for brain and physical energy )
Could I burn fat well and my liver make bg for energy but still not be able to burn the ketones I make ?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

Welcome to the forums.

The body is pretty much either in glucose-burning mode or in fat-burning mode, depending on whether insulin is high or low, respectively. It’s kind of like a switch, not a gradual spectrum.

So rather than lecture you on biology and metabolism, let me instead observe that your post gives the impression you are not feeling the way you expected to feel on a ketogenic diet. It mostly gives us your diagnosis, but it might be more helpful if you could describe your symptoms; then we could work towards a diagnosis as a group.

#3

Thanks for your response - I went carnivore 4 years ago for general health and to aid coming of antidepressants - I no longer suffer from my arthritis or asthma and am far healthier - had initial great improvement in my mental health also but after year or so started to decline , I suffer quite severely from physical fatigue and mental fatigue at the same time and wonder if my body for some reason cannot use the ketones I make ? - after a couple years carnivore I looked more into keto and monitoring bloods - can go for weeks with an ketones at 1.5 - 4 range but still have no energy - I do have slightly high blood glucose in mornings ( dawn phenomenan ) and my glucose can double when out on a run ( eg 3.5 - 7 range ) been getting worse and can’t exercise much anymore - kind of wondering if my body prefers the glucose my liver makes for fuel rather than being able to use ketones even after around 4 years fat adapted ?

(KM) #4

Have you tried adding some carbs back into your diet to see if it makes a difference? I’d be very curious to see how that works. Low energy and mood could be due to any number of things not keto related, but I have to say that after a year on keto, I’m feeling a slump in both as well.

#5

Have tried some fruit and Greek yoghurt and they do seem to give some improvement - not wanting to try back in more permanently yet as i wonder if some of my issues are gut related

#6

I also had a slump a year or so in - upping fats ( beef tallow mainly really helped initially)

#7

I find that I do best alternating Keto and Carni. I do seem to need some carbs. Also, alternating the amount of fat I eat, as well as how often I eat has made a big difference.

In other words, sometimes adding fat worked for me, sometimes adding carbs did (non carni carbs) and sometimes switching between OMAD and 2MAD and 3Mad has helped.

#8

Guess the question I’m really asking is can u be fat adapted but unable to use ketones for fuel in the brain and muscle

#9

There’s no such thing. If you’re keto adapted, you ARE using ketones. If you’re not eating carbs and you’re still conscious, you ARE using ketones. No lab test needed.

If you have no energy, it’s what you’re eating (realistically, what you’re NOT eating). Are you tracking your macros? What’s your physical activity look like?

#10

U can be fat adapted and not producing ketones - the body uses fat and ketones differently for energy??
I eat mainly red meat - fat ( tallow ) - some eggs - around 70% fat to protein
I am generally in ketosis in the am
I suspect I may have another issue relating to my fatigue but am trying to understand if I am utilising the ketones I make - have wondered about trying some urine strips to see if I am dumping ketones in urine instead of using them ?

#11

You use the ketones you need and excrete the rest - in your urine and breath and, I think, sweat. You don’t need a ton of ketones. You need fat for energy, not ketones.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #12

If you can metabolise fat at all, you can metabolise ketones, since ketones are partially-metabolised fatty acids.

The citizen-scientist Amber O’Hearn, herself a long-time carnivore, hypothesises that people in your situation may not be eating enough fat, and that is the reason for the lack of energy. According to her line of thinking, it is possible that you’ve shed all the excess fat your body feels it can spare, so more fat needs to come from your diet, now.

I don’t know if she’s right, and of course something else might be going on in your case, but it’s a plausible hypothesis, and so you might try eating more fat, to see if it makes a difference.

#13

After loosing 3 stone on carnivore I really had to up my fat to feel good , found cold dripping ( tallow ) the easiest to digest.
I do feel I have another issue going on but was trying to understand how the body uses fats / ketones before making changes , which I think you have answered for me :+1:
Thanks

(Jane) #14

Don’t bother with the test strips. I still test sometimes out of curiosity and after 6 years on keto can still trun them pink and dark purple when fasting. I just seem to make more ketones than my body needs, even after 6 years.

But I feel fine and energy level is good, so I don’t think the pee test strips will tell you what you are trying to find out.

#15

Thanks for that :+1:

(MC) #16

Well energy utilisation in the body comes down to ATP or adenosine triphosphate, whether your storage energy is glucose or ketones. ATP requires magnesium to work, it’s also a copper based process.

So I’d agree with lfod14, look into what you’re not getting, maybe using Cronometer to track minerals and vitamins. And bear in mind a lot of foods don’t have the mineral profile that they used to.

#17

Thanks