Ummmmmm... is this weird?

keto
science
fasting
(Kimbrie) #1

So I just finished a 48 hr fast at 2pm, have eaten a couple things but nothing off the charts, and just now when I tested my ketones they were negative? I did the test 3 times to be sure. I know I was in ketosis for most of the day as I had symptoms (i.e. dry mouth, excessive thirst, bad breath, etc) Any thoughts?

#2

Sounds like dehydration.

Which test?

Stay hydrated. Eat some low carb foods, if you are hungry. Repeat the fast next week while monitoring ketones.

Repeatability, test-retest reliability, is important in working out if your data is accurate.

KCKO

#3

Just a thought so please don’t take offense… but are you sure you should be doing such long fasts so early in your journey?
Regardless, don’t make chasing ketones a goal. Chase results.

Good luck!

#4

Any chance there were hidden carbs/sugars in whatever it was you ate?

(Ken) #5

You’ve just burned them all. The level is too low to measure.

(hottie turned hag) #6

It sure does.

Indeed.

Many of us on here have never tested ketones and have succeeded nonetheless!

Not saying testing for them is bad, just that it’s not necessary.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #7

:+1::+1: Two thumbs up to you all! For many people testing ketones and chasing numbers seem to be upsetting, causing undue stress and beating yourself thinking you’re doing something wrong because the numbers aren’t what you expect, too high for some and too low for others. They are just fine people if you’re staying VLC. Trust the process, I have been at this almost 15 months and have no idea what my ketones have ever been like. Don’t really care. I know I am in ketosis because I am not eating sufficient carbs to survive on and I am not dead. Also dropped 60 lbs without a single worry or question if I was “doing it right”. The slogan Keep Calm and Keto On (KCKO) gets used a lot around here for a good reason!

Gotta second this too. :cowboy_hat_face:

#8

I used to do the cheap breathalyzer thing for fun to see if it registered but got tired of wasting batteries. I never took a blood test but I did, like probably most of us, buy pee sticks before I found out they were mostly useless.

Like @David_Stilley said just trust the process.
Keep up the good work!

(Bunny) #9

If your using the pee strips and not seeing anything that means your using them (ketone bodies) all for fuel especially the brain…

If you are using a blood meter and seeing low to no ketones after a long fast… same as above, that means your body is using them very efficiently.

You don’t want to see them high in your blood or urine, that’s the point of being in nutritional ketosis or otherwise and not in ketoacidosis that’s when they build up so high in your blood or urine that you can see them and not a good thing if they are real high constantly, that would mean your blood is highly acidic and you might notice having a hard time breathing? When your not seeing ketones or in the low range that means your breathing better than a person with strictly a glucose metabolism[1][2] and why you burn body fat because it takes oxygen to oxidize glucose or fatty acids.

What you do want to see is occasional trace spikes in ketones with a blood meter because they go from high to low from second to second, minute to minute and simply moving or walking around the house will show a low ketone spike or 0.0, you quit moving and you might see a 4.0…it gets real tricky!

Same thing with the pee sticks, it will test negative the more you move, if you quit moving for a while and lay in bed then get up and test again it may turn dark purple.

See also: Mitochondrial Oxidative Biogenesis

References:

[1] What is anaerobic and aerobic respiration?

Aerobic respiration takes place in the mitochondria and requires oxygen and glucose, and produces carbon dioxide, water, and energy. Anaerobic respiration also produces energy and uses glucose, but it produces less energy and does not require oxygen. …More

[2] What is the difference between aerobic and anaerobic respiration?

Aerobic respiration occurs in the cytoplasm to mitochondria, while anaerobic respiration occurs in the cytoplasm only. The high amount of energy is produced and 38 ATP released at a time in aerobic respiration; Less amount of energy is produced and 2 ATP are released at a time in anaerobic respiration. …More

[3] “…Glucose is good for the body and necessary to begin cellular respiration; however, with no insulin to facilitate glucose entry, blood glucose levels will rise as well as glycogen levels, and the body has to look for an alternative energy source. That source is stored fatty acids. The stored fatty acids are converted into free fatty acids that are oxidized when they enter the liver. One of the byproducts is ketones. The abundance of ketones and associated pH reduction impair oxygen release from red blood cell hemoglobin. Less oxygen is available for cellular aerobic respiration. The result is tissue hypoxia, a shift toward anaerobic cellular respiration, and metabolic acidosis. …” …More

[4] “…In aerobic respiration, the final electron acceptor is an oxygen molecule, O2. If aerobic respiration occurs, then ATP will be produced using the energy of high-energy electrons carried by NADH or FADH2 to the electron transport chain. If aerobic respiration does not occur, NADH must be reoxidized to NAD+ for reuse as an electron carrier for the glycolytic pathway to continue. How is this done? Some living systems use an organic molecule as the final electron acceptor. Processes that use an organic molecule to regenerate NAD+ from NADH are collectively referred to as fermentation. In contrast, some living systems use an inorganic molecule as a final electron acceptor. Both methods are called anaerobic cellular respiration in which organisms convert energy for their use in the absence of oxygen. …” …More

(Full Metal KETO AF) #10

Which kind of means in plain speak that testing is a waste of time and money. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Bunny) #11

Ketones behave strangely your either using them or your not (they sit in your blood and urine) but when you throw resistant starches into the mix it can pull those reserves (ketone bodies) from the gut rather than resorting to glucose which could chronically trip hammer the insulin and your storing fat and glycogen all over again and then the fatty acids get re-esterified (stored back into the adipose tissue as lipid droplets) rather than oxidized into ketones in the fatty acid turn-over pool?

You can only pull so much from dietary fat or body fat to be oxidized at once within a certain period of time then it defaults to glucose from glycogen storage or gluconeogenesis from your own body tissue or protein you ate three days ago in which case your still burning sugar to trip hammer the insulin once again without oxidizing it (skeletal muscle volume; aminoisobutyric acid BAIBA?), then you become intolerant to carbohydrates ect.

Or something to that effect?

(Kimbrie) #12

David, thank you so much for your reply…truth is I am now seeing how flawed my initial thinking was, not only the safest route but not a schedule I would have been able to keep going. Eating and living healthier is of course a goal, but I was too focused on weight loss and if I had to almost stop eating to do so I was going to lose weight. About 7 to 10 days ago I had a few days where I was really hungry. Was breaking fasts after like 6 or 8 hours and then of course like a sugar deprived fiend ate too much. I didnt eat anything crazy but a couple of days of that and I had gained back nearly half the weight I had lost. The positive is that it put things into perspective for me. I have to make the healthier lifestyle change a priority and if I follow the guidelines dietary wise and fast in a responsible fashion the weight is going to come off. Honestly it is like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders not focusing so intently on rapid weight loss. You all told me, other experts told me, but I decided to try something much more extreme than I needed to. Now that I have shifted my focus, my shorter less frequent fasts have been pretty successful. I have said this a bunch of times and it still rings true, I feel betther physically, mentally, and emotionally than I EVER have in my life. I still cant believe this is happening, that I finally found a way to stop treating my body and mind like giant trash can. You couldnt pay me $1000 to eat a cheeseburger. That is so 180 degrees from where I was. I want it too much to fail. I have talked to as many people that would listen about this program, if you know the science and still choose to remain carb heavy than more power to you. I will be over here eating something based on its nutritional value…crazy

(Scott) #13

When the wife and I started she bought some pee tabs online. By the time they arrived I had decided I really didn’t want to have to go through with that so I never did. That was a year and a half ago. To this day I haven’t measured anything or counted anything except my weight. It went down until I hit 183 lbs. and stayed right there for about six months now. This is so easy, limit carbs enjoy fats with moderate protein. It just works.

(Susan) #14

I am very proud of you, Kimbrie, I am glad that you are figuring it all out and doing so well. Keep up the good work, and we will all be here to cheer you on! =).