Two qs from newbie in first week low carb


#1

Hi, this is a great site so far and I appreciate all the excellent threads. I am doing low carb (shooting for 50 per day for now unless I learn otherwise) due to my petscans not coming out so great on the last one. I’m a sugar head and always have been. This is one thing I can do for my part. So for my qs:

  1. Does anyone have experience or know of anyone with positive experiences with keto and cancer? I have breast cancer and am on drug therapy for now, I won’t do anything else.

  2. It seems as though even with all of the many people having success eating this way, many sites like the American Diabetes foundation, Men’s health or other larger entities seem to paint a very negative picture of people doing a keto or low carb diet. Anyone else notice that? I’m wondering if it’s because it works.

Thank you in advance for any info!


(Old Baconian) #2

It’s true; the ketogenic diet is in ill repute in a lot of places. Part of that is that it’s a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet, and there are forces invested in the idea that eating fat (or its proxy, serum cholesterol) causes cardiovascular disease. This is based on faulty, not to say fraudulent, research, and there are data to suggest that higher cholesterol is actually associated with better cardiovascular outcomes.

There is also the fact that a low-carb, high-fat diet is very difficult to do as a vegan, and the anti-meat lobby is passionate and powerful. Veganism has its roots in the writings of the Prophetess of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, Ellen G. White, who was a mentor to John Harvey Kellogg and his brother. She believed that we should not eat meat because it stimulates our “fleshly lusts.”

Thirdly, there is the association with diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that occurs in Type I diabetics in the absence of insulin. Nutritional ketosis involves ketone levels that are an order of magnitude smaller than those seen in diabetic ketoacidosis, but the association persists in many doctors’ minds.

As for ketosis and cancer, it is true that many cancers thrive on glucose, so a low-carb diet is helpful in dealing with them. I have never seen the claim that a ketogenic diet can cure cancer, but Dr. Dawn Lemanne, a board-certified oncologist in the Pacific Northwest of the United States, maintains that it is a helpful adjuvant therapy to radiation or chemotherapy treatments. She warns, however, that certain cancers thrive better on β-hydroxybutyrate, the principal ketone body, so it is important to know what type of cancer you are dealing with. (She will not directly treat any patient she cannot see in person, but she will consult with your doctors on your treatment plan. A Google search should turn up the name of her practice.)

Dr. Thomas Seyfried, a noted cancer researcher, says he is convinced that all cancers result from metabolic damage from excessive dietary glucose (i.e., carbohydrate). I may possibly be overstating his position, but not by much, and it’s still a long way from saying that a ketogenic diet will cure cancer. So if anyone tells you that, be wary.

Welcome to the forums, good luck with your treatments, and we hope to hear more from you.


#3

Many thanks for all the info. Makes a ton of sense. I watched a talk recently that Dr Seyfried did and he speaks about low carb being one component as you’ve said for cancer treatment, and then something like a glutamine blocker drug being the other part. That on its own it’s not a cure. Although he couldn’t direct anyone to working doctors doing the glutamine block, I think when he did the vid their trials were still in research mode, but with a lot of success, according to what he said.

On the cancer thing, I also read an article about keto and cancer back from a few years ago from that guy Chris Beat Cancer. It was very heavily leaning toward being dismissive of low carb and keto, yet building up the vegetarian diet and I guess his own coaching products. I immediately wondered if there was a connection from him to some of these larger companies pushing the vegan low fat diet we’re increasingly seeing everywhere now. I’ve tried a few times to find full fat anything (yogurt for one) and almost always have to sift through many 0 or low fat options first, and it’s ridiculous!


(Robin) #4

I know the numerous benefits I have received from keto. And my doctor applauds them. That’s all I need to know. I think rocking the boat on the traditional beliefs about food and health is similar to believing the earth is round and revolves around the sun. Old beliefs are hard to conquer. So I just go with what works for me. I don’t announce that I do keto and don’t engage in arguments about it.


(Jane) #5

First of all, best of luck beating your cancer. I wish I had known about keto when I had breast cancer back in 2008. Now I am hoping keto helps keep it from coming back.

I hear ya on finding full fat products. I use my sous vide to make my own yogurt and it is very simple to do. I always save some to start my next batch and if I think it will go sour I freeze it and it works just fine.

I also strain my yogurt as I like the thicker greek-style yogurt - just line a colander with some cheesecloth and strain to desired thickness. If you catch the whey you can always stir some back in if you forget about your yogurt and it gets too thick.


#6

I will check out what the situation here is, I don’t even remember ever seeing 0% fat yogurt, it’s either not a thing here or I am super good at not seeing low-fat dairy, I don’t “believe” in them (my brain can’t compute) so it makes sense (yogurt is basically dense water to me, no matter the fat content as it’s always super low, I always were a sour cream person but 0% must be something “special”, I want to try it out of curiosity :D)… I do see 0.1% “milk” since maybe decades now…

But you other folks usually have heavy and double cream while I need to be content with only 30% fat… Okay, it can be whipped and it’s not a cute fat content but still.

Oh well, at least we can very easily buy pork (up to 100% in the edible part, we have a decent variety from lean to full fat), it was odd to read that some countries don’t do this, what they do with the fatty parts then? Use it in products only? And probably the low-fat mania took much time to get here (I don’t remember anyone warning me about high-fat in my childhood or later until lately) and most people totally ignore it anyway.

I am sorry I can’t help with their questions (well I have some idea of the second but I don’t like the topic and it was answered anyway).


#7

Thanks Janie, and good idea - I’ll look into making my own and bypass that issue altogether~


#8

Shinita, the 0 yogurt is absolutely terrible, but I’m sure some like it (or like the idea). We have that issue with some meat - it’s tougher to find 80/20 ground beef where I am than it used to be, and it’s more $$

Thanks for your input~


#9

I’d recommend adding 2500iu lichen Vitamin D supplement and eating some carrots everyday within your carb limit.

https://www.breastcancer.org/tips/nutrition/supplements/known/beta_carotene

https://www.breastcancer.org/tips/nutrition/supplements/known/vit_d


#10

It’s a very common belief here (and I guess with reason) that ground meat is worse quality than one would expect so people just make their own, it’s super easy so makes perfect sense.
I can make ground meat/fat at any fat percent, from 0 to 100, from my favorite cuts, very easily.

Our meats and ground meats have an unknown fat content. We can vaguely guess based on the cut but it’s probably VERY varied.
I have no idea how fatty 80/20 is, I would need to count and think and it’s late for it… But I am fine with lean mincemeat, it works and I can add extra fat if I want (but I always fry it so I always add some). I made mincemeat from very lean meat and fatty meat (more fat than protein) alike. And added fat tissue when I made sausage as that is a very fatty thing and needs it.

There must be people liking 0% yogurt. Once I met someone who only liked milk with that (for me) horrible strong UHT flavor… Tastes are wonderfully different and sometimes quite surprising.


(Jane) #11

What if you HATE carrots?


(Laurie) #12

Tomatoes.


#13

I have a sister that is exactly the same and I’m sure both of you would get along great. :slightly_smiling_face:

Even raw carrots?

Pastured eggs and grass fed meat could work if very fresh meat is available. Carotenoids most likely decrease as meat oxidizes.
https://www.millersorganicfarm.com/Pastured-Eggs-vs-Commercially-Raised-Eggs-_ep_70.html

Then there’s the cooking factor.


(Ivy) #14

podcast on keto and cancer by ‘The Keto Show’ it happened.


(Robin) #15

I also had breast cancer and a lumpectomy five years ago. Ive been keto a little over a year. I have noticed a huge difference in less inflammation and even the calcification from the surgery is getting smaller. I would definitely say I am MUCH healthier and stronger overall than before my cancer and surgery. Best of luck with yours!


#16

That’s really good to know, thank you for that!


(Jane) #17

LOL. Yes, I hate even raw carrots. I pick them out of my food and give them to my husband if a restaurant dish comes with them. EOC’s - we laugh “evil orange carrots”. We also refer to one of our orange kitty girls as an EOC “evil orange cat” :laughing:


#18

Not to come off as a know it all. An important note is that the majority of tomatoes are unripe and aren’t high in lycopene and contain nicotine.

I used to exchange carrots for green beans with my sister when we were young. I never understood her dislike for carrots.

What did the carrots ever do to you?

Do you also hate liver?

Are you a picky eater?

Did you know that beta carotene extends lifespan via increasingly telomerase activity?


#19

You didn’t ask me but…

Do you like everything?
I am glad I finally can avoid most vegetables including carrots…

What does it have to do with carrots?
(But I like liver and eat is every week. In smallish amounts. I am not soooo much into it. It’s just nice variety. And it’s carnivore so fits into my current woe. Unlike carrots.)

[quopte]Are you a picky eater?[/quote]

It’s a keto forum. Probably most of us are choosy about our food… I am glad if I can say to no to sugar (like carrot). I have no idea if people call that being picky. Probably. (I behave differently sometimes, though. I ate carrots today because they were in the soup at a relative. They were very unnecessary, I don’t enjoy them anymore but I forgot my food and was hungry and the soup was nice anyway. But it’s a way better idea for me just eat a dish without plants. The less plant carbs the better, it seems. Each to their own, of course.)

[qoute]Did you know that beta carotene extends lifespan via increasingly telomerase activity?
[/quote]

I just know almost every edible plant is hailed as some superfood. I don’t care. I trust my body and it doesn’t want carrots. No plant can contain some awesome miracle thing to balance out the sugars… They are never good but a little doesn’t hurt me. It does many others, apparently.
I am so thankful I lost interest in most vegetables, I was a huge veggie lover. Vegetables are unneeded, hunger and overeating inducing sugars to me (except a few kinds in small amounts, they add flavor here and there).

I will talk about lifespan and stuff in 50-70 years when I can tell if my chosen woe were a good choice. (But I still will think it’s partially about genes, positive thinking, exercise… What we eat is very important too, of course but it’s not everything.) As I feel best if I eat least plants, I have a hunch I go into the right direction and the less carrots I eat, the better.


(Jane) #20

See above. (I have to post something even if obvious as the software won’t let me post just a quote, even though I edited it).