Two more questions today. Need some answers

(PJ) #9

It was mostly those experiences that gradually entrained me to not leave keto unless I thought very hard about it first – mainly about my misery getting back to a good state. A meal sometimes two if not crazy doesn’t throw me, but a whole day wildly offplan will.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

Whatever you did, it appears to have reset your metabolism, although not completely since you are still synthesizing measurable ketones. A restart is on order. :slightly_smiling_face: My recommendation at this point is just to carry on as if you are newly starting keto. The quickest way to get ketosis restarted is a 3-4 day water fast. If you’ve never done it before, day two will be the toughest. But day 3 and 4 will be easy. Or you can just keep eating sub-20 grams of carbs per day and tough it out until it passes. It will if you do.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #11

Walmart.ca has
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Bayer-Contour-Next-ONE-Bluetooth-Meter-Kit-For-GLucose-Care/PRD726OW649Z1O4 (listed as $26) I wasn’t seeing strips for it.

(Christopher Kornelsen) #12

Not abad price but I already have ketone tester which also tests glucose. But strips see very expensive

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #13

Ah. Yeah, that does seem to be an issue. Was just trying to come up with ideas for you :slight_smile:

(Trish) #14

You can usually get the meters for free with the purchase of 100 strips, but ya, the strips are all around 100 bucks for a hundred of them.

(Trish) #15

As someone else also noted, when you’re fasting your nutrient needs are being met by your own body. Just be sure to remain well hydrated and if doing an EF then perhaps some keto-aide for electrolytes. Happy fasting. :smile:

(Christopher Kornelsen) #16

What I mean is some doctors started if your waying 1 or 2 meals a day you need less macros less vitamins. Huge difference between maintaining my weight eating g 2500 calories and eating 1600 calories.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #17

@LogocentricKorn Sorry, I must have missed something. This does not make sense to me:

What I mean is some doctors started if your waying 1 or 2 meals a day you need less macros less vitamins. Huge difference between maintaining my weight eating g 2500 calories and eating 1600 calories.

My first attempt to translate: "What I mean is some doctor(s) stated if you’re eating 1 or 2 meals a day you need less macros and less vitamins. Huge difference between maintaining my weight eating 2500 calories and eating 1600 calories.

If not, please advise. If so:

‘Macros’ are the ratios of fat/protein/carbs you eat, independent of how much you eat. For example, if you eat 200 grams of fat and 100 grams of protein, the macro ratio is 2:1. If you eat 100 grams of fat and 50 grams of protein, the macro ration is still 2:1. You’d eat half as much, but the macro remains the same.

Vitamins and minerals are not dependent upon how many calories you eat per day. They are based on how much of them you deplete/excrete and need to replenish each day. When you’re eating keto, these amounts may differ from what you needed before keto. Since keto does not retain water, many water soluble vitamins and minerals are depleted via urine and require replenishment more frequently.

Yes, there’s a huge difference between 2500 and 1600 calories. So the point is what? Do you know your RMR? Your typical DREE? You need to know those numbers, at least roughly, to determine whether or not you’re eating sufficient calories to maintain weight overall. Whether to eat more or fewer calories is also related to hormonal factors as well, since they affect how calories from specific sources are dealt with. Example: a calorie of fat gets metabolized very differently from a calorie of protein or a calorie of carbohydrate. Elevated insulin, for instance, will prevent fat from being used as energy.

(Christopher Kornelsen) #18

Ok so how is it humanely possible to get say…4500mg of potassium in your diet if your IF eating far less calories which means far less food which means far less potassium. I guess just eat the lite salt? Seems not to nstural

(Susan) #19

KetoAide homemade Electrolytes are very important to keep up on the Keto lifestyle.
You can also eat Pink Himalyan salt or other types (Redman’s real salt, by example). or put some in a glass of water and drink it.

(PJ) #20

Yes I understand your point. The RDA for potassium is mind boggling. How anybody can get this much in their diet, short of eating a few cans of orange juice concentrate every day, is a mystery.

Edited to add: on the other hand nobody’s getting it from whatever diet they were eating before keto either, I bet…

#21

Yep, any time I tried to get that much I ended up with low blood pressure and/or swelling in my face, headaches, palpitations etc. Likely they recommend that much based on a carb-rich environment where sodium is retained more by the kidneys. It’s a correct sodium-potassium balance that’s required for proper cellular function, not an RDA number.

P.S. tired symptoms can be lack of sodium or B-vitamins, not eating enough… do you have cold hands or feet for no reason?

(Trish) #22

Actually, on a SAD it’s pretty easy to get that much potassium. Typical SAD meal day…
large coffee and bagel with cream cheese on way to work= 370
medium banana 425 and a bran muffin at break 500 and another coffee 50
burger 300 to 600 and large fries 900 and glass of cola for lunch 3
bag of chips while working for the afternoon 340 orange juice 500
roast beef 8 oz for dinner 700 gravy 60 one cup of mashed potato 700 half cup broccoli 140 and a small ceasar salad 400
half a dozen cookies while watching tv before bed 200
eh voila! you are on your way to 6000 mg here
On keto though, I also struggle to get my RDA of potassium. That’s probably my biggest challenge nutritionally/micronutrient wise.

(Parker the crazy crone lady) #23

I take a potassium/magnesium/calcium supplement and call it good. Well, actually I also add pink Himalayan salt to my coffee (yum), and suck on a small amount once or twice a day. I feel good, and never had keto flu, probably because of that.

(Susan) #24

Yes, I would think that really helped you, Parker =).

(Parker the crazy crone lady) #25

I would never have thought of needing magnesium and potassium if not for this forum.:hugs:

(Susan) #26

Me neither! I love this forum, and I am learning new things all the time =).

(PJ) #27

In the past I’ve read some stuff about requiring more of certain nutrients when your diet is different. I believe, given historical foods, it’s entirely possible for humans to not get that much potassium per day – and yet, to not be eating modern crappy unfood either – and be fine. So it’s possible that in addition to the RDA being insanely LOW in many areas, that it’s also very HIGH in areas which, as an absolutely amazing and unrelated coincidence, also mean you would almost have to eat lots of produce to get it.

It is possible that too many years of reading on this topic has made me a little cynical alas.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #28

That level is well into nutritional ketosis, as defined by Stephen Phinney and Jeff Volek. They set the lower limit at 0.5 mmol/dL, because that was where they generally began to see the benefits of circulating ketones, but as Dr. Phinney admitted at Ketofest this year, that limit is somewhat nebulous. People have been known to be fat-adapted at lower levels than that (mostly elite fat-adapted athletes). Higher levels of 1.2 don’t necessarily mean that you are “more in ketosis,” because the measurement is of how much β-hydroxybutyrate is circulating in your blood, not how much is being produced, or how much your brain, heart, and other organs are using.

The simplest way to determine whether you are producing ketone bodies or not, is to ask yourself two questions: (1) am I eating less than 20 g/day of carbohydrate? (2) am I breathing in and out? If the answer to both questions is Yes, then you are in ketosis.

The matter of fat adaptation is different. Whereas we enter ketosis as soon as our blood sugar level drops sufficiently, fat adaptations takes around two months, and for some people much longer. This is because of the need for healing and re-adaptation at the cellular level, process with take time. During the adaptation phase, you should experience a drop in energy, since your muscles prefer to burn fatty acids but have to make do with ketones until they finish adapting.

If you experience flu-like symptoms, however, that is caused by a lack of sodium and can be cured by increasing your salt intake. The kidneys excrete sodium more readily on the proper human diet, whereas carbohydrate and the resulting high insulin level impede their ability to excrete sodium. The return to a normal excretion rate needs to be compensated for.