Tweaking things

(Gail ) #1

I’m 3 1/2wks in and measured Ketones for first time last night: 0.6. I’m quite happy with that.
My most important goal initially was to get some control over my extreme sugar cravings.
That happened on day 2!!!
So I’m learning things all the time but here we go:

  • not sure how to know if electrolyte supplementing is still needed.
    -still have heavy fatigue days
  • my front teeth hurt on various days! I know it’s related, even tho people say it’s not.
    Some electrolyte I’m missing. Maybe calcium?
    -I hear from some sites that some vegetables are ‘free’ and I can eat as much as I wish. So far I’ve been mainly fats and meats. Any thoughts?
  • I also understand that being off balance with protein can start glucogenesis which I’m thinking I don’t want.
    I have not started fasting (except inadvertently when I realize I’m not hungry and haven’t eaten all day :smile:.
    This WOE for me is about sugar cravings, reducing internal inflammation, and a healthier lifestyle.

For all those words, I’m interested in the tweaking part of this.
I don’t eat ANY fruit. So afraid of getting out of Ketosis. Yet I don’t want to diminish nutrients.
I’m completely sold on this WOE but just don’t think I have it down yet.

(Karen) #2

No veggies aren’t free, but you can eat quite a few green veggies under 20 carbs.

K

(Gail ) #3

Guess like anything else, there is conflicting info out there. This came from a YouTube site: “kenDberryMD”. He’s very interesting but had one talking of 7 vegetables that can be eaten without concern for counting their carbs.
Thank you for responding

(Edith) #4

I had trouble with my teeth hurting a few times and it went away with vitamin C rich foods - veggies and berries. We don’t get vitamin C from meat or fat.

Also, you will always need more salt as long as you follow a ketogenic diet.

(Gail ) #5

Ha!! Forgot about vitamin C!
Thank you.
I do see the fatigue being somewhat related to dehydration and electrolytes. I’ve been using this “sea seasonings” from Whole Foods.
“Dulse Granules”. Kind of a salt substitute, I guess, with potassium and a bit of iodine.
Just seems against my norm to supplement potassium. Thus the tweaking questions.

(mole person) #6

I’d say that he’s giving some advice here without any scientific foundation. It’s very easy to go over 20 grams of carbs eating those vegetables if you are a person who likes veggies a lot and favors them over meat and fat. He’s not given a single reason to think that somehow the net carbs in those veggies won’t throw you out of ketosis if you get too many.

I have a friend that was trying to do a keto diet while eating a lot of veggies. He was eating a full bunch of broccoli a day. That alone got him well over his 20 net grams of carbs.

(Gail ) #7

Certainly makes sense that it would throw me out if Ketosis. An example of needing to get info from various places. Not just one source.

(Gail ) #8

He’s been on 2Ketodudes as a guest speaker.

(Rachel) #9

Just searching for teeth hurting! My front top teeth ache on various days too on and off this past month. Keto since January and just stared now. Any other discoveries as to why?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

On the other hand, as Dr. Phinney points out, we don’t really need it on keto. Vitamin C is an antioxidant, and we need it on a high-carb diet, because insulin turns on some genes that inhibit the body’s natural anti-oxidant defenses, leaving us vulnerable to all kinds of reactive oxidative species. Beta-hydroxybutyrate, the principal ketone body the liver produces, acts as a hormone to turn these genes off again, making vitamin C unnecessary.

(Edith) #11

Maybe we don’t need it in huge quantities but we still need some to prevent scurvy, do we not?

(Karen) #12

Guess not

https://breaknutrition.com/ketogenic-diet-vitamin-c-101/

K

(KetoQ) #13

I had a problem with teeth yesterday and today it has totally gone away. Could you tell me where you found info about vitamin C and tooth pain?

(Edith) #14

Interesting article but many of the ideas appear to be speculative at this point. Although, 10 mg of vitamin to prevent scurvy is certainly pretty easy to get.

(Edith) #15

There are many articles online about scurvy. Here is a link to one:

(Ron) #16

Respectfully, they are all directed to the body that uses glycogen/glucose as it’s fuel source.
An excerpt from the above posted article that is very informative.

Ketogenic diets increase biosynthesis of glutathione
Even those that can’t synthesise vitamin C, can make more efficient use of it under the right conditions. In fact, scurvy can be substantially delayed in guinea pigs in the absence of dietary vitamin C, if glutathione esters are given. In one such experiment there was no sign of scurvy after 40 days, even though they usually die of it in 21-24 [12]. That’s because one of the functions of glutathione is its essential role in vitamin C recycling [13].

We know that ketogenic diets upregulate glutathione biosynthesis [14]. It’s unclear to me from the literature whether total levels are increased. In rats, it goes down in liver tissue, but up in hippocampal mitochondria [15].

It’s clear, however, that in addition to recycling vitamin C, glutathione has overlapping functions with vitamin C as an antioxidant and that they mutually spare each other [16]. I hypothesise that in ketogenic conditions, other antioxidants such as glutathione take over many functions that would be served by vitamin C in synthesisers.

(KetoQ) #17

thanks!

(Edith) #18

It is lines like this one that I take exception with:

“I hypothesize” is not the same as “research shows”. And, what many on this forum line to point out about studies, humans are not guinea pigs.

It is a very intesting article, but for now, I am going to make sure I get my 10mg of vitamin C a day just to be on the safe side. :slightly_smiling_face:

(Edith) #19

http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox

The first half of this article mentions how the Inuit got vitamin C through the foods they ate, so they did get C through meat and fat. I am just not a lover of offal and I like my meat cooked. :grinning:

@PaulL, does low carb really make vitamin C unnecessary or just necessary in much smaller quantities?

Edited to fix a typo.

(Mark Rhodes) #20

Think inuit here. I eat liver just to be on the safe side.