So yesterday I tried taking a tbsp of MCT oil 3x spread over the day. I didn’t test levels until supper, and was disappointed, as I’m selling a high GKI (which means I need high ketones).
I had MCT oil around 1pm, 5pm, and 10pm. I’m not really sure about the times. When I say down to eat my ketones were only 1.2, which is in my normal range of I only eat once. I had a good day meal, with MCT oil shortly before eating). I was pleased to see ketones of 2.1 about 2 hours after eating.
I know that after eating keto for 18m or so my body should be producing on a need-basis, but I’m having trouble pumping up the production beyond need. I’m not very active…I have trouble exercising at home (and can’t go out to do it).
I’m going to use up the 2 open bottles of MCT oil I have and then I think I’m going to stop buying it. I may try an experiment with some exogenous ketone products instead…
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#2
My understanding is the MCT oil does not require typical fatty acid processing and converts to ketones very quickly. Maybe you need to start measuring every 15 minutes after ingestion to get an accurate trace. I use both MCT and coconut oils in my morning keto coffee. I use the MCT as an initial quick energy boost and the coconut for the longer term.
Bottom line, however, is that ketones are fuel. If you don’t need more fuel you might simply be excreting/exhaling the additional ketones or simply not converting to ketones at all. If you want to boost ketones you will have to ingest so-called ‘ketone salts (or esters)’ which contain actual ketones, no metabolic processing required.
Have you looked into body weight training? You can do a lot at home. If you train to failure (you can’t do any more), you can have short routines. Ted Naiman does these every day.
Now, whether that will raise your ketones, I’m not sure.
The “trouble” I have is that I’m just not consistent with it. I just don’t do it consistently, and finding a regular time is almost impossible, unless I get up early.
@KetoCancerMom For most folks posting questions about goosing their ketone levels, I’d be asking “why”? But in the case of addressing cancer challenges, I certainly appreciate the keen interest in keeping one’s GKI ratio low.
Still, out of medical ignorance, allow me to ask: Is there evidence that in connection with cancer treatment, higher absolute levels of ketones (e.g., BHB serum levels) are shown to make a difference? Or perhaps is it still the decrease in glucose/insulin levels (that fuel tumor/cancer growth) that’s the objective?
[Sorry if this is well understood by most folks in this field. I’m still trying to learn as I go here.]
Yea, the zone for metabolic management of cancer is very low, as opposed to a gki for simply health maintenance, etc.
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#8
This my help answer your question.
Like @SomeGuy I wonder about the need to boost ketone numbers. I recollect that somewhere you have discussed your specific ketone numbers and why they are necessary to deal with your cancer. So I presume it must be based on that.
Oops. I see that @Regina has likely answered the question.
Good questions!
I know that Thomas Seyfried had researched this. I don’t know why the high ketones are desirable, if glucose is already low (but not otherwise dangerously so).
The problem is that not all of us produce high ketones. After 6 years low carb, mine are quite low. In order to me to get them up, I can fast for multiple days. There are only so many times I can do that. I THINK certain types of fat might help. But I haven’t tested enough to know. While I have thousands of tests, it’s very difficult to test one thing, as no matter what you do, you’re changing multiple things. Say “saturated fat” increases ketones. How do you get “saturated fat”? Even things high in saturated fat have other fats.
I really feel for you, as you want to get ketones high, but at some point, I fear your body might “fight back” by lowering them.
I’ve heard Dr. Seyfried in various interviews and have been extremely impressed. However, my recollection was that it’s the glucose that needs to be managed downward (as in, extremely low)… and that this was why the GKI ratio was so relevant - as opposed to elevating ketones, per se. In other words, if you cut out the carbs and substitute healthy saturated fats, one’s ketones will necessarily increase.
Having taken a quick look, I think the article you’ve linked above is not inconsistent with this understanding.
If one keeps glucose low (= low-carb) and eats healthy fats instead, doesn’t this necessarily mean one’s body will produce sufficient energy sources from the alternative nutrient source? Lower glucose + higher ketones => GKI reduction.
I’ll share my n=1 experience with GKI for whatever it’s worth (probably not much as I do not face any serious known health issues at the present):
When starting keto 6 months ago, within days my GKI index plummeted to around 1 to 2. My BHB levels took off … typically running 5-6 mmol/L even as my glucose levels remained well below 100 mg/dL (even with dawn effect).
In fact, it was kind of unnerving.
This situation lasted for several months. Then suddenly - it stopped I did nothing differently - same low-carb diet, exercise, etc.
More recently, my BHB levels run right around 1 mmol/L with the same glucose levels of under 100. So my GKI now hovers between 5 to 9. Again, same eating, exercise, sleep, stress, blah, blah. Still feel the same (i.e., feeling great.) But it’s as if, internally, my body suddenly shifted gears or something.
My understanding is that our bodies adjust (over time) to produce sufficient ketones for whatever our muscles/organs/brains require. Sure, some of what we produce is glucose (through neoglucogenesis) even if we significantly restrict our carbs. But even not eating carbs (beyond trace amounts in green veggies/eggs), eventually our ketone levels tend to be no greater than what’s needed to fuel our metabolisms.
Again, I fully appreciate that seeing a lower GKI ratio feels a lot better (emotionally speaking). And, on a personal level, since I’m not battling with diseased tissues believed to consume glucose, the stakes are low in my situation.
But I’m still left wondering if it makes a meaningful medical difference to increase your ketones given that you’re most certainly already severely restricting your carbs? Perhaps a reason it might actually promote better health to ingest exogenous ketones could be that higher ketone levels would further lower your glucose production - by lowering whatever pace of neoglucogenesis is taking place? And, if so, presumably this would also serve to further lower your GKI ratio. But I don’t know this to be a medical fact.
And it also goes without saying that I’m just spit-ballin’ here since I know very little about this topic.
The red line shows when my glucose went under 70. The thick light blue band shows my target range (70-100). My glucose isn’t the issue. I want to be able to enjoy eating, so I stopped strictly tracking, as it was annoying. It also didn’t seem to help, as my results were so inconsistent, as far as ketones and GKI. I’d only measure before eating.
That’s why I only track occasionally now, there does not appear to be much rhyme or reason for values. I’ll be between 0.2-0.5 mmol/l ketones every morning, but between 90-100 or so for glucose then, too. It doesn’t change.
This is akin to LDL. There is evidence (epidemiological, granted) that higher LDL is better. But no matter what I do, my LDL is lower than 100. Again, fasting multiple days causes this to go up, but there are only so many times I can do that.
Allison Gannet manages her brain cancer with a ketogenic diet and keeps her GKI very low. She is the spokesperson for Lakanto, so you can find her info on their website. I read about her and she has been successful in keeping her tumor well managed.
@ctviggen. My understanding is there is a genetic component to cholesterol. My total and LDL has been low my entire adult life, no matter what I eat or dont eat. My trigs and HDL seem to be more influenced by diet, exercise.
I did nothing differently - same low-carb diet, exercise, etc.