Total carbs and Net carbs with High total carbs but low net carbs

(Mike) #1

I haven’t been able to find much information on this topic.
If I eat something that has say 10 g Total carbs and 9g Dietary Fiber. Do the 10g total carbs still spike your blood glucose about an hour after you eat it. It would seem to me that the net carbs only apply after its completely digested. Can you really trust net carbs?

I’m doing a modified carnivore and I’m trying to keep carbs below 5g. My weight loss was completely stalled on keto but I’m losing again on Carnivore. I think I’m very sensitive to carbs.
Thanks
Mike

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #2

Good question Mike. I too am interested in the replies.

Welcome to the Forums :blush:

(Chuck) #3

It totally confused me too, some of my research said worry about net carbs, some of it said to only count total carbs. So I finally gave up and just started doing what works for me best. I fast an average of 19 hours each day and I eat real food mostly moderately low carb. No highly processed or refined, no fast foods and no artificial sweeteners, and no fruit juice. With one exception and that is lemon juice which makes a great diuretic when added to my black tea.

#4

Fiber is a carb, that we don’t digest. What you can’t digest doesn’t affect you. That said, 10g of real carbs isn’t going to spike you either. There’s a huge problem in Keto with people redefining every transient rise in glucose as a “spike”. Were you tracking what you ate on Keto vs Carni? If you’re losing now, but weren’t then, the answer is in there, it’s not because of an ignorable amount of carbs. Many people that go to carni wind up eating less because of the amount of protein and assume it’s simply from going to carnivore. Even with fattier cuts of meat, your fat intake usually winds up being lower, and fat adds up REAL fast vs carbs and proteins.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #5

The difference between counting net carbs and total carbs is one of those topics that comes up on these forums from time to time. If counting net carbs gives you the results you want, then mazel tov. If it doesn’t, try switching to counting total carbs and see if that helps.

Dr. Stephen Phinney, one of the early researchers into a ketogenic diet, advises patients to keep total carbohydrate under 50 g/day, in hopes, as he says, that their net intake will be under 20 g/day. Whereas Dr. Eric Westman, another earlier researcher, tells his patients to keep total intake under 20 g/day. He finds that counting total carbs is both easier for the patients and acts as what he calls “prescription-strength” keto. So do what works for your body.

(Mike) #6

Ok. I just cheated on Carnivore 2 hours ago with a keto snack: Flackers. Total carbs 10g and 9g fiber or 1g net carb. I was in ketosis of 1.2 for 2 days. But after cheating by eating 1 oz flackers I got knocked out of Ketosis. I use Keto Mojo.
I’m inclined to think you can’t use net carbs.
Having some Flackers was the reason I posted.
Anyway I’m not cheating on Carnivore anymore.

For me non zero-carb keto food initially lowers my ketosis and that’s the reason I need Intermittent Fasting on Keto, to regain ketosis. I don’t seem to have that problem on pure Carnivore.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

The point of a carnivore diet is to avoid plant-based foods for the health benefits that provides. If you don’t need those health benefits, then you can eat keto instead. Do what works best for your body.

(Mike) #8

I agree I cheated. I won’t do it again. Im learning, I tried pushing the limits and now I know.
I did not have very good results on keto. But pure Carnivore is definitely working very very well.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #9

It’s a life long learning process perhaps. Such an interesting subject.
I do Keto rather than Carnivore but having some Carnivore meals I can tell the veggies give me a little indigestion in comparison

(Mike) #10

Yes it takes a while to learn what we should be eating. I believe that’s because we’ve been lied to for so long by doctors and dieticians. Ohhhhh fat is so bad…But now we know t’s absolutely good for you! The heart association recommended diet wil give you all the autoimmune deases we all know about!
But I’m starting to see doctors backing carnivore more and more.
I spent 60 years eating the wrong stuff. I grew up eating Pa Dutch food which is the worst of the worst. Massive sugar in everything. But at least I’m learning what humans should eat now.

#11

Don’t get sucked up into that “getting kicked out” crap. Your Ketones are fluctuating constantly throughout the day. Given that your ketone levels don’t mean anything as far as fat loss goes, or even overall benefit except people doing keto for medical reasons, it’s ignorable. Your benefits are coming from low inflammation, low carbs, not that ketone level.

Most of us doing this for many years all went through the phase of obsessively focusing on things that don’t matter, and ignoring what does. I get that it’s hard not too, but try! Your sanity will thank you.

(Mike) #12

My experience is different from yours.

#13

Just like some others said, do what works for you. In the end, you should figure out your way, others ideal diet may be a horrible idea for you…

I never had problems with high total as long as my net was low so I never care about my total carbs. Or my animal carbs as I experienced I feel fine even if they aren’t low (but it’s not too high for ketosis in my case anyway). I have no idea about my blood sugar and I really don’t care as long as I feel good. But you can check it if it’s important for you…

(Mike W.) #14

Yes you will. And that’s ok. We’re not the Keto police. Do what makes you feel good and tweak it til it works for you.

(Robin) #15

Back when I was counting, I always counted ALL the carbs, including fiber, and I always rounded up. So I knew I was good. Eventually you’ll figure it out and probable have a very good idea of what you should or should not eat
You got this!

(Central Florida Bob ) #16

I think the reason it’s hard to get an answer to this is that all fiber is not the same. Some kinds are more digestible than other kinds. I’ve never seen a list that talks about the kind of fiber and how digestible it is and I suspect the reason is that it varies with the individual. Probably on our microbiomes - which everybody thinks is important but there sure isn’t a lot of hard data on how to get a better one.

Other than a poop transplant. To me, that’s firmly in the “last resort” list.

(Jenna Ericson) #17

Keeping total carbs under 50 grams per day has worked well for me. Food companies know about using net carbs and I’m wondering if nutrition labels are not all that accurate. I think in other countries besides the US sometimes all that is listed is total carbs.

I think there are other problems with net carbs sometimes. I’ve definitely had days when I’ve eaten like 50 grams of fiber and like 20 grams of erythritol and the net effect is not desirable.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

Actually, it’s the other way around. The U.S. lists total carbohydrate and then tells you how much fibre there is, so you can subtract it, if you want. In the rest of the world, the “carbohydrate” figure is digestible (net) carbohydrate. If you want to count total carbs in those countries, you have to add the “carbohydrate” and the “fibre” amounts.

The idea is that the digestible (or net) carbs are digested by us, but the indigestible carbs (fibre) are digestible only by the intestinal bacteria, if at all. (And they produce a lot of methane, hence the gas we often experience.)

I’ve never seen a reference for this, but Dr. Westman claimed, in one of his lectures, that there are data to show that indigestible carbohydrate (fibre) is not so indigestible as has hitherto been believed. It’s one of the reasons he advises his patients to count total carbohydrate intake.

#19

I see.

But if fibre carbs aren’t getting absorbed and converted to glucose, why even bother worrying about them (UK) in the general keto scheme of things?

They should effectively be written off, IMO.

(Chuck) #20

For some people fibre is very important to prevent constipation, and I am one of those people.