Three weeks in, weight gain, and energy left again

[Lc14503]

I am a slim (but with some sudden weight gain ) 44-year-old woman. Used to be a runner. I’ve never done anything like keto. I am three weeks in and feeling discouraged.

The issue is that I have gained a few pounds especially around the middle, and even though I began with the keto flu and then had a huge spike in energy (that I LOVED), I am back to very low energy during the day. I never had much of an initial weight loss, maybe a few pounds of water weight. This low energy feels terrible. I don’t think I did anything that would bring me out of ketosis. What does this mean?

I’m taking electrolytes and I’ve started taking magnesium pills in the evening. I think I’m drinking plenty of water and I am salting my food more than ever. Urine sticks, for what they are worth, show moderate ketones. I did take melatonin for a few nights, It was a pretty high dose and I stopped.

{Some basic recent history— During the last two years, I’ve had foot surgery and foot injury and was sedentary. I’ve always eaten tons of carbs: things like good French bread and good pasta and TONS of fruit, also plenty of chocolate and snacking on candies and crackers. Maybe my body just needs more time to clear out the carb reliance?

A few years ago I went a few weeks almost without eating because of a huge stress and heartbreak. I have occasionally done intermittent fasting — and then every time the same person would do the same heartbreaking thing I would lose my appetite for a week or two and get skinny. I worry that I may have destroyed my metabolism and body.}

Anyway, several weeks ago I suddenly gained 10 pounds and it just never came off. And it is not a healthy robust- looking weight either. I’ve never gained weight that suddenly. So I started keto.

In the beginning I had very low energy— I assumed the keto flu. I was t to restrict my calories to something around 1400 a day, but I am terrible at counting calories and I was basically ballparking it and probably going over.

I snacked on lots of nuts because they seem snacky.

I snack because of the low energy. But again, I’m not snacking on anything processed or carb. Not even vegetables. Just mainly nuts, peanut butter, bacon and cheese for snacking.

All my food groups seem to have the correct macros and even though I’m not calorie counting, I am carb counting. Keeping it down to below 20 or 25 a day. I don’t eat sweeteners except sometimes Stevia in the raw. I really stay away from processed foods. I’m eating lots of eggs and cheese and bacon and meat and avocados, And only very occasional vegetables. I need vegetables from the list of keto friendly ones.

I have always loved my vegetables. I miss them. I’m wondering whether one day I can go back to tons and tons of vegetables. Salads, cooked greens and everything.

I almost feel like throwing in the towel and turning to a diet of vegetables, beans and rice, and fruit, in that order.

Or does keto start giving consistent good results in energy and waist line after more than three weeks?

I don’t think that my snacking based on low energy is that huge of a problem, because I don’t think I’m eating much more than 1600 cal a day. I am 5 foot seven and weigh about 130 pounds.

[Shinita]

Or does keto start giving consistent good results in energy and waist line after more than three weeks?

It never gave me decent energy… Maybe carnivore helped a bit, hard to tell (as I can’t seem to stick to it for long enough) but fat adaptation surely couldn’t make me energetic or lose any fat… But my energy isn’t higher on carbs and I feel my body likes lower carbs better so I didn’t lose heart (even though I went off all the time. I wasn’t very motivated to stay for long but I felt it’s my way). Actually, keto gave me nearly nothing because I still ate carby stuff like vegetables. Carnivore-ish (as I am not the type who can do it strictly and honestly I see no point in that for myself) is way better (and easier). But I needed a lot of time before I was ready for it.

So many things can be a problem. I definitely would eliminate certain items to see what happens.
Snacking on nuts and cheese wouldn’t be good for me for sure! As for me, eating nuts never helped with my energy. Or eating much. 2000 kcal, 3000 kcal? Nope, nothing.
But if you tried to stay below 1400 kcal (a very, very little food though if you are tiny, it’s possible it’s not starving for you… if you do nothing… okay, maybe your metabolism is really snow and it’s enough, who knows?), I can imagine eating significantly more would do good.
And yes, it may result in gain first but if your metabolism is messed up, it’s probably the better option, not sticking to low calorie.
Nuts are quite calorie rich, maybe they take away the room from better stuff?

Sudden fat gain is simply impossible but I had a sudden, similar weight gain too, in my most stressful time, it made no sense… I imagine my body hold back water and slowly replaced it with fat as gaining 1kg fat requires storing 7000 kcal energy and that must come from somewhere (and I regularly eat more than my needs though rarely and not very much so it was still odd)… Whatever. It happens, there are experiences…

Our body is complex. We can’t know what yours do but it changes. It must change as you eat so little carbs. It does various things, I wouldn’t focus only the fat and water storage (weight changes) in these early times especially that you messed with your body before and it needs to sort it out, heal, maybe gain muscles (but that’s slow and if you don’t exercise the right way, it hardly can happen)… Our bodyweight fluctuates and 3 weeks is very short…

I have always loved my vegetables. I miss them. I’m wondering whether one day I can go back to tons and tons of vegetables. Salads, cooked greens and everything.

Oh it’s familiar… I did vegetarian keto. I hate almost all green leves. Only 1 kg vegetables at most a day, it was less than minimal! I used a 40g net carbs limit but it was my only hardship, missing veggies.
Short term (okay, for years…) I focused on raw vegetables (revisited the raw vegan blogs I knew… but I usually just grabbed some pepper or cucumber or radish and ate it with my food). I promptly banned cauliflower when I learned to make it riced and fried. 40g was spent in no time and I couldn’t just eat even less of it… Maybe you understand as you seem to be similar, eating vegetables in decent amounts
I planned, experimented and used my ~25g net carbs veggie allowance (I needed a lot for my nuts and others) on vegetables that was worth it. Like onions, that’s basically spice, a little goes a long way… But tomatoes are nice too (not the tasteless store-bought stuff. well stores are fine if it’s some nice Italian tomato puree).

But if one eats meat, it is probably way easier. I don’t know as I lost my interest in vegetables when I switched to carnivore, meat AND vegetables, I didn’t have such a time. But it probably helps a lot.

Why can’t you eat a decent amount of greens? Maybe cut back the nuts or use less carby ones? Sometimes I spent much time planning a day to maximize satisfaction. I can spend many carbs on a little something I barely enjoy while other items are worth it way more!

I almost feel like throwing in the towel and turning to a diet of vegetables, beans and rice, and fruit, in that order.

Doesn’t sound good but if you feel your body wants HCLF, I surely won’t try to stop you. Each to their own. Even I couldn’t do keto (let alone carnivore, even occasionally) right out of high-carb. I have low-carb years first. Maybe you need to do it more gradually and see what your body says. Mine LOVED it, promptly burned the bridge back to high-carb. It hated keto so I stayed low-carb and tried it again later. It went smoothly then but I couldn’t stay, there was no point and I missed my veggies - but I kept some of my keto habits and changed my relationship with vegetables. A bit. I have no idea what caused my sudden disinterest in most vegetables but it was quite helpful. I really, really loved my veggies. It was my most beloved food group, I thought I could give up anything but that. Life has its surprises.
As soon as I took away plant carbs, my desires changed. It was when I suddenly lost my food addictions. Peanuts, chocolate, sweets every day (preferably in the end of every meal)? It was suddenly over (until I didn’t add back plants, at least). I felt FREE.

Erm, sorry if I got carried away too much but I don’t know what could help you and maybe you are a bit similar to me in these… I would love to know earlier what I know now - though I suspect I still would have needed a long journey. But maybe a bit shorter and easier…

I am 5’4". Now way heavier but once I was 136 pound. I needed way more food than 1600 kcal to avoid feeling miserable and weak. Especially that I ate nuts and cheese and vegetables too… With less carbs and more satiating items (though it’s possible the mentioned ones are satiating for you, it’s quite individual, after all) it’s a bit different. Maybe you don’t feel but your body wants more food. Or different food.

[Lc14503]

Thanks for that! I wonder if I need to eat more, and stop the snacking-for-energy behavior.

Maybe before, I used carbs for quick energy. And now must transition to using energy reserves?

I probably have to re-acquaint myself with the feelings of hunger and satiety.

In college I read that lifelong low-calorie diets prolonged a person’s life, if they are nutrient-dense. The article persuaded me. I think the theory was that all the burning and refueling was wear and tear on the body. Later, I read Dr Fuhrman’s theory-- highest nutrient over calorie is the way to prolong life.

But I need to give those theories up if I’m to try keto. I’ll aim for slow burning of reserves. I’ll trust my body to be strong! I guess that means saying goodbye to snacking for energy.

It’s only been 3 or 4 days that those ketone sticks have registered more than trace ketones.

I have a narrow frame, and small head, so even a little weight doesn’t look good on me. I envy women who can wear extra weight gracefully.

Even so, my main aim is the extra energy. Those 2-3 days that I had extra energy last week were a wonderful experience. I felt 25 again. I’d take that over looking better. I felt more myself again. I want that back!

Could the energy slump also be the 5-10g melatonin with valerian I was taking for a week?

[PaulL]

The premise of ketogenic eating is that excessively high glucose and insulin levels are detrimental to the human body and promote not just obesity, but a whole host of metabolic problems. The key is to cut carbohydrate intake drastically, so as to allow insulin to drop.

The problem for people who want to lose weight quickly on a ketogenic diet is that this way of eating is primarily a means of restoring metabolic health, with fat loss as a pleasant side-effect. This means that when the number on the scale doesn’t drop very fast, it gets discouraging. The problem is not with you, but with the hype. The first thing to bear in mind is that the stories of people losing large amounts of fat fairly rapidly come from people who had large amounts to lose. Everyone, even those people, finds that the last twenty pounds come off a lot more slowly than the first two hundred.

The other thing that people find discouraging is that there is a period of adaptation involved. After years of eating excessive amounts of carbohydrate, our fat-burning mechanisms are either damaged or deactivated, and there is a period of recovery required before we can efficiently metabolise fat again. In most people, this adaptation period takes about six to eight weeks. So our commitment has to be to this diet as a way of life, not as a short-term fix.

Another thing to bear in mind is that women, for some reason, often have a harder time seeing rapid results on a ketogenic diet. These forums are full of posts from women who found that their bodies needed a month or two to restore themselves before fat loss began in earnest. This is probably related to women’s hormonal cycle, because things seem to happen more rapidly for men. The other thing that women sometimes encounter is that, after years of calorie restriction, their bodies often decide to add lean mass (muscle and bone density) on keto, and this confuses the scale. It is possible to add lean mass while shedding fat mass, so the scale should not be your only indicator of progress. Keep track of the fit of your clothing, as well.

What is happening at the moment is that your metabolism is re-regulating itself. One that is sorted, your mitochondria have healed and have given birth to new mitochondria, and the fat-metabolising pathways in your muscles have been reactivated, you will then start to see results.

In the meantime, keep your carbohydrate intake low (under 20 g/day) and eat plenty of fat and protein. Don’t fear fat; the propaganda against it is not based on actual science. Don’t guzzle fat for the sake of eating fat, either; just don’t be afraid of it. And don’t fear calories, either. Cutting calories tells the body there is a famine going on, so it hunkers down and holds on to its resources. Many people have found, rather paradoxically, that their fat loss didn’t begin until they started eating more. This is because, given abundant food intake, the body ramps up the metabolism and can even waste energy. Once your fat metabolism is back in shape you will be able to take care of both the fat you eat and the excess stored fat that you want to shed.

[gingersmommy]

It’s only been 3 or 4 days that those ketone sticks have registered more than trace ketones.

Hello, and welcome.

Of course, these suggestions are all from my perspective. We all have to find our way and what works for us. For me, I would get rid of the pee sticks and anything else you are using to monitor your ketones. Also, ditch the scale. It’s nothing short of a mind eff. Find your daily macros and meet or exceed the fat and protein macro and keep the carbs as low under 20 as you can.

I am 5’7" also and currently 160. Although I want to lose another ten pounds to get to goal weight, I think I look great. Although I am big boned and carry my weight well, it just seems to me that 130 is very small. I think it’s good that you aren’t looking to lose weight and that this is more about feeling better physically for you.

my main aim is the extra energy

Try to be gentle with yourself and allow your body the time it takes to restore itself and switch to fat burning. Three weeks is a good start, however, I don’t think you have hit a way of eating that is comfortable and works for you. Remember, up until three weeks ago, you have had a lifetime of eating carbage. Your metabolic system has been trained to process carbs first and require more soon after they are depleted and your energy levels dip. The fact that you need to snack and that you are around 1400-1600 calories tells me you aren’t getting enough food.

For another 3-4 weeks, I’d eat three meals a day, even if you never did before. This in no way has to be elaborate - couple of eggs, bacon and/or sausage in the morning; green salad for lunch with tuna, chicken or meat, bacon, cheese (gouda, havarti), home made blue cheese dressing (I just whip heavy cream and blue cheese crumbles, salt, pepper, lemon and worcestshire), cream cheese, etc.; and dinner can be a good size piece of meat, fish, chicken, pork and a steamed veggie with bacon grease or butter. Your body is looking for fuel. I ate this way for a month and still lost weight and inflammation, and felt better physically than I ever had. After your metabolism reaches a comfort level where it has converted to fat burning and has reached a level set, you will likely only feel a need to eat twice a day, or even once a day. That should happen on its own without any prompting. You will find that you can naturally skip a meal (or two), without needing to eat in between.

Don’t snack; if you are feeling a need to eat that is beyond just a craving, I don’t think you are eating enough at your meals. Increase your food but consume it during the meals you do eat. During my keto journey, I found that in addition to not needing to eat as often, I didn’t “crave” the carbs that had been my kryptonite for my entire life before.

There are still a few things that are keto friendly that I don’t allow myself because they are just too binge worthy for me - nuts and peanut butter are two of those things. I just don’t have them because I love them so much.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope some of it helps you. Good luck on your journey!

[SomeGuy]

In the beginning I had very low energy— I assumed the keto flu. I was t to restrict my calories to something around 1400 a day, but I am terrible at counting calories and I was basically ballparking it and probably going over.

I snacked on lots of nuts because they seem snacky.

You’ve gotten excellent and sound replies above. I’ll simply note that those nuts (which are very hard to portion control) contain a lot more carbs that add up more quickly than you might think. I would not “snack” on those during this early transition period.

And, as noted above, eating MORE (healthy fat/adequate protein) is most likely going to help you much more than eating less. The mitochondria need to adapt to burning fat - and if you confuse your body that you are starving it will shut down your metabolism further … i.e., more fatigue, less energy, less weight loss over the long run.

Keep us posted, please and best wishes!

[Lc14503]

It’s the fit of my clothes I’m worried about, I don’t really weigh myself but boy am I getting more fat and bloated around the middle and everything is tighter.

However, given where you’re saying, it seems wise to increase the size of my meals, quit with the snacking, and wait for the body to heal itself and do things right.

I’m more concerned with energy and long-term health and I am with any quick weight loss. I just don’t want the sudden weight gain to indicate an upward arrow into perpetuity!

But the reason I was the first concern was that I did not think keto was a healthy long-term diet. I might be changing my views on that.

A side effect that started happening is that my thoughts have more clarity. Particularly emotional thoughts around sad things that have happened in life. That clarity seems to come with the days that I have more energy from this.

Thank you for your post. It’s convincing me that this is a long term thing. If weight loss is not the first thing that happens and that is just fine by me. As long as my weight will not keep going up and up!

[Shinita]

I am 5’7" also and currently 160. Although I want to lose another ten pounds to get to goal weight, I think I look great. Although I am big boned and carry my weight well, it just seems to me that 130 is very small.

It’s very individual.
My SO is male, 5’9", 152 lbs and he has a very fatty belly (compared to his old, still not slim enough looks and his vanity. of course lots of men have it way worse), we know he actually should be ~140 to look right (every little extra fat looks bad on him but this much looks very bad). Not too skinny at all, just right, without a fat roll in the middle. And he is active with very impressive, thick legs (of course, he isn’t muscular apart from this).

I am 5’4", female, mildly active, not muscular, I probably would be fine around 122 (as I don’t want to be “skinny”. just slim - and muscular if I can pull off so I want a higher weight later).

And I totally believe you too and I know that height and weight in a “normal” range says very little about how much fat reserves a person has. And how it is distributed.

[Shinita]

I forgot to write it before but it was so long ago for me… I mentioned it though. Fat adaptation. Just some more weeks and you should reach it too. Sometimes that is what brings important changes, not just being in ketosis. No wonder, your body is a bit confused in a brand new world! It needs a little time.

I still think it’s good to eat enough (probably a bit more. I know ketosis may trigger eating less than needed. it didn’t happen to me but I heard about it. having some experience with undereating in the past surely doesn’t help. I always had the opposite problem…) and it’s a fact that snacking on nuts and cheese isn’t good for many of us… So I think it’s good you try to change it. You will see. The body often give feedback pretty quickly. Don’t believe anyone about most things regarding your ideal woe as it’s individual to a great extent. Try what sounds good and your body hopefully will help to decide if it will work. But some of us need to continue finetuning things… We change, after all.

[SomeGuy]

I’ll offer one more consideration …

Women often report that their short term response to keto is a lot different from what men typically report. More specifically, weight gain does not come immediately (except for some water loss - which warrants maintaining proper hydration/electrolytes) - and hormones can also make a big difference in the course of how changes take place.

For many women, it’s not a straight line of results. My wife experienced this - stuck with it and it has worked wonders for her well-being.

[PaulL]

But the reason I was the first concern was that I did not think keto was a healthy long-term diet. I might be changing my views on that.

There’s no reason that it should be unhealthy over the long haul. It’s how our ancestors evolved to eat, from isotopic analyses of prehistoric remains. The invention of agriculture happened very recently in terms of our evolutionary history (12,000 years, versus 2,000,000 years), and there is plenty of archaeological evidence to show that the adoption of plant-based foods was not a boon to human health. (Dr. Michael Eades has a couple of lectures on this topic, in various incarnations, available on YouTube.)

There are also enough people walking around who have been eating ketogenically for a decade or longer, for us to know that if there are ill effects, they are extremely subtle and rare.

[PaulL]

My SO is male, 5’9", 152 lbs and he has a very fatty belly (compared to his old, still not slim enough looks and his vanity. of course lots of men have it way worse), we know he actually should be ~140 to look right

Interestingly, my ex was 5’ 7", and at 140 pounds he looked emaciated. He always looked his best at 150-155 lbs. Everyone’s different, I guess.

[Lc14503]

I am learning a lot here! Patience seems indicated, which is fine by me.

I do seem to have issue with eating when bored, tired, and lonely.

Lots of us live and work in sensory hell: flourescent lighting, ugly spaces, uninspiring yet stressful computer screens. Hard chairs, nothing nice to see or touch. Ugly noises outside. Food has been a nice sensory experience I can do while working. It isn’t just about being occupied: it’s about senses. Time to un-learn that somehow! Funny how keto is highlighting this problem for me.

[PaulL]

I do seem to have issue with eating when bored, tired, and lonely.

You are certainly not alone in that!

[Lc14503]

That’s encouraging. Health information is so contradictory! I’ll watch the Michael Eades lectures. I am encouraged by the couple days of good energy I had so far . . .

[SomeGuy]

Interestingly, my ex was 5’ 7", and at 140 pounds he looked emaciated. He always looked his best at 150-155 lbs. Everyone’s different, I guess.

I can relate to your ex’s situation… at slightly taller 5’9" I’m consistently hovering around 140 lbs on keto (compared to slightly over 160 on low fat/high carb and 25+ years of daily cardio exercise). Yet, these days, I look in the mirror and look more muscular but much thinner than I’d like.

Then again, on keto I eat like a pig - to full satiety - through my two daily meals, and feel full and never hungry. So I guess what “I’d like” my body to look like vs what “it wants” to look like simply may not be the same thing. Apparently my body is winning.

[ctviggen]

Just mainly nuts, peanut butter, bacon and cheese for snacking.

If you have to snack (and when I started keto, I ate 5+ “meals” a day), some of these aren’t the best. I personally avoid nuts and nut butters, as I always over eat them. I also avoid bacon (sorry, people!), as I always overeat bacon. It took me a long time figuring that out though: I just noticed what happened when I ate these foods.

As for cheese, that’s a tough one. I personally don’t seem to have a problem with cheese, but I also only add it to a meal. For instance, cheese chunks added to meat. Some (many?) say they overeat cheese by itself.

[amwassil]

Not much to add. But keep in mind that decades eating SAD can’t be undone overnight. Don’t think you haven’t been damaged - you have been. The only question is ‘how much and how long will it take to fix?’ If you’re lucky the answer will be ‘not much and not long’.

As for longevity, eating hundreds of grams of carbs per day is neither ‘normal’ nor healthy. Our Paleolithic ancestors spent their lives mostly in ketosis simply because they had no alternative. We are adapted to ketosis because of it. As Paul pointed out, the experiment with carbs ongoing for the last few K years is turning into a disaster metabolically and health wise.

I’m a 76 years male on keto for 4 1/2 years, in ketosis 99+% of that time. I think it the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. I only regret I didn’t discover keto years sooner.

Best wishes.

[gingersmommy]

Interestingly, my ex was 5’ 7", and at 140 pounds he looked emaciated. He always looked his best at 150-155 lbs.

That’s my husband, too.

[SomeGuy]

Interestingly, my ex was 5’ 7", and at 140 pounds he looked emaciated. He always looked his best at 150-155 lbs.

That’s my husband, too.

WAAAIT here now, just a minute … @gingersmommy are you saying that @PaulL’s ex is your husband?!?