Thoughts on "farewell to paleo" post?

(Oded Shopen) #1

I was wondering what are your thoughts about this post of someone who has been on paleo diet for 14 years. This is the kind of stuff that worry me about this diet.
Thanks for the thoughts!

(paddy0761) #2

Every non-institutionalised adult is responsible for what goes into their own mouth. I’ve been Paleo for over 2 years and LCHF for a year. I’m still making food choices based on Paleo principles, but am including fermented dairy and keeping gross carbs to around 50g per day (net carbs around 20g).

I’m ketotic almost all of the time the last 6 months. I feel sensational. I feel the best I have in all of my life. My biomarkers are fantastic, I’m at a healthy weight. At age 55, I take no medication and don’t have a single ache or pain. I haven’t had so much as a head cold for 2 years now. My skin has improved. My eyesight has improved 2 steps.

As long as this is working for me, I’ll keep doing it.

Keep calm and Keto on my friend.

#3

I think how well a person is suited to an animal-based vs plant-based diet depends a lot on ancestral lineages. Clearly there are groups of people who thrive on no plants to speak of, such as the Masai and Inuit. Others may have a higher tolerance for grains and such.

(Sharon A Peters) #4

“, empirical knowledge collected over 5,000 years …”? Does the gentleman understand what his statement means? Knowledge which is “empirical” would have to be gained through controlled, monitored experimentation. Somehow, I doubt that was the case; certainly, archaeology has never noted or confirmed the finding of anything which would support or document this claim - either in skeletal or physical remains. We’ve got the Rosetta Stone and tablets bearing such things as Hammurabi’s Code, or pictures and inscriptions from Ancient Egypt and the Near East of baking and beer-making, but to date,no evidence of empirical research. So that is where this whole argument went off the rails. If what he defines as Paleo for himself is no longer working, and a return to grains and plant carbs is, then fine. Whatever he’s doing is not working for HIM. That does not, however, mean that it no longer works for everyone else. There really are no actual details of what he was doing … just an indictment of eating that he implies a set, detailed definition of, thereby relieving him of the responsibility of laying our how he was defining “paleo”. I wish him well; however, this does not “prove” anything.

(Jacquie) #5

I think it helps to have some history here. Kurt Harris, a dentist and well respected member of the paleo/non-paleo community, had an excellent blog that no longer exists. Here’s his take on Don Matesz. An interesting note is that Don’s present wife (his first wife Rachel, a fabulous paleo chef, died) is a vegan.
http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2011/12/13/don-matesz-stumped-by-tim-the-enchanter.html

(carl) #6

My first observation is how he lumps protein and fat together as a causal agent in many of his statements. That said, there may be something to it when paleo (which includes some natural sugars and requires more protein) rather than ketogenic. We experience dry skin, keto rash, etc. usually for a brief time and then it goes away. Very interesting. However, I have not had the negative experiences this guy has, so I’m not too worried.

(Sharon A Peters) #7

Carl, “…, keto rash, etc.” Please speak to me of rash. Like itching, especially on the chest and belly?

(AnnaLeeThal) #8

It sounds like he needs a Well Formulated Ketogenic Diet. But I suppose it’s not for everyone.

#9

I’m not convinced the paleo community knows what they are doing…and yes, please forgive me for the generalization. The reason I say this is because I come across a huge variety of conflicting information under the paleo umbrella. And a lot of it with cognitive dissonance.

Just this Christmas, I was at a family gathering and had to listen to some of my family members give me a lecture on how my keto diet was unnatural. And all the while they tried to convince me that their paleo diet was of the truer form. Mind you, each member telling me this was in excess of 250 lbs, loads of medications and illnesses. One person not working because of chronic back pain prohibiting their mobility. I recall one particular conversation where as one person was scooping teaspoons of honey into their coffee telling me it was not sugar, but honey, and the body knows the difference…and of course…it’s paleo. I just sat there with my cream in my unsweetened coffee and kept my mouth shut…why start an argument at the dinner table during Christmas? Hopefully, the cognitive dissonance in the paleo community will dissolve one day.

#10

Well…he eats loads of sugar, and loads of protein along with loads of fat. Gee, who would have guessed that those macros would lead to problems? Duh.

His diet has nothing to do with a high healthy fat, low carb, moderate protein diet.

(Glenn Graham) #11

Sounds like he had a rough time. However, it is his experience only, and his blog does not detail his meal plan. I know many paleo diets that go bare bones on food and food sources.

I would point to larger population studies. There is a lot of tribes that don’t have his issues and live love trouble free lives. Examples (Inuit of the Canadian Arctic, Chukotka of the Russian Arctic, etc.). Check out the science section there is a lot of data to backup the healthy label we use for this lifestyle.

I did like this response too

#12

I find that the Paleo diet is full of cognitive dissonance, and large discrepancy between the “food guidelines”. Here are some disjointed claims in the Paleo community:

  1. natural fats are good…but, objective is to select lean meats for normal consumption (limit fatty cuts, no skin on chicken, etc)
  2. cane sugar bad, maple syrup good, honey good…wtf?
  3. white potatoes bad, sweet potatoes good…
  4. some grains are bad (rye), some grains are good (millet)…huh???
  5. scampi are ok, shrimp are not…this is what my sister in law lectured me about a week ago …:unamused:

I’m sure there are some Paleo folks doing it the right way…so, I don’t like painting a broad brush stroke. Unfortunately, there’s a great deal of Paleo food guidelines that conflict…and it makes no surprise to me that people abandon the regimen. If a diet is based on “just following rules”, then you depend on loyalty to the party line. However, if instead a WOE is based on “show me the science”, the science guides logical decisions.

(paddy0761) #13

Farewell indeed. Goodbye. This guy seems a little flakey.

(paddy0761) #14

I think you’re onto something. I stumbled from Paleo to Primal to LCHF to Keto - all whilst maintaining the initial Paleo principles of nutritionally dense, ethically raised, organic and biodynamic produce. Paleo is correct, if done right. Carbs need to be to personal tolerance, For the lucky 15% of the population, they can have 300g, for the rest of us, it’s eventually under 100g and ultimately under 50g.

(Jacquie) #15

@paddy0761. I did something similar. Started with Eades’ Protein Power in the mid 90’s then paleo. Primal, Whole30 and then keto. I tend to agree with what you’re saying.

(PaleoCassie) #16

@odedia @paddy0761 @jaquie
Hi everyone. First post here. I am Paleo and have lost 140 pounds over a two year span. I did not do it being Keto but much of the time I was LCHF. Currently I’m not 100% Keto and I’m not 100% Paleo. I make adjustments depending on the situation since I travel 50% internationally for my work. I only eat two meals a day (I.F. for two years). I’m allergic to dairy and fruits which keeps my food choices to mostly meat and veggie. I was never diabetic and had no sign of pre-diabetes (but I never attempted the pre-pre-diabetes glucose tolerance test that Richard talks about).

I fully believe in insulin resistance and that excessive carbs can destroy or poison the body. I think everyone must spend time to find what works for them. I gained the excessive weight because I was eating so many foods that I was allergic or had sensitivities (gluten, coffee, and chicken based on testing) to.

I hope you don’t mind that I’m not 100% Keto and that I chose to select whole foods when possible. Since Paleo has so many definitions, I don’t worry about the food list itself but that I am eating what my body can tolerate–or better yet–thrive on every day.

I’m sorry that other Paleo folks have lectured you all. We can get a bit excited about how good we feel. I went from being on a walking cane, needing a nap every day, having a full blown Candida infection, and on constant allergy medicine to feeling like a miracle happened after three weeks into the Whole30 program. I still recommend it to people who ask me, and once they get to a good point on understanding real food I start to discuss LCHF and I.F. with them. It’s a process for everyone and we come from different paths.

Take care everyone.

(Jacquie) #17

@PaleoCassie Looks like you’ve found what works for you! :slight_smile: I came to keto from Whole30, (as stated above) and then started testing BG even though I lost a few pounds on Whole30 and also when I started keto. Imagine my surprise when I found that starchy carbs, fruit and too much protein spiked my BG but I was losing weight. I came to keto, dairy and AS free, and stayed that way for a year. I’ve since introduced dairy but feel better with less of it. I eat whole foods, so not sure what the technical term would be for my woe. lol I think there are other folks here that eat somewhere on the continuum of paleo/lc/keto. Welcome to KF! :grinning:

(carl) #18

Yes. It’s a thing. Lots of info here: http://theketorash.com/