This is why I don't like the word Cure

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(Stan Brooks) #1

A woman who started juicing cured her of cancer recently died of cancer. This really breaks my heart. People are easily took in by bad beliefs like this all the time. It’s one of the reason I tend to be a little hard nose when people here and elsewhere spread myths like “organic is better” etc etc. It leads to further magical thinking and that can does get people killed.

Thanks to @carl and @richard for creating a show that focus on the science. We need more of it and I promise to do my part in any way I can.

Link to story.

(Karen) #2

The science world is struggling to catch up. I I was hunting for a medical/science twin study on true keto (not super high protein) vs high carb, low fat like maybe vegan. Didn’t find one. Anyone?? I found some twins on Daily Mail, but NOT a scientific study.
K

(Richard Morris) #3

There just isn’t the money available to fund that kind of study. Those who control the public purse are too invested in the alternate hypotheses, and those who control private funding are too busy trying to find a drug that can replicate the effects of a ketogenic diet.

Look at this mouse study into reversing diabetic nephropathy

The have shown “These studies clearly demonstrate that diet can reverse diabetic kidney disease even after it has developed.”

Yet look at their discussion

" the ketogenic diet is probably too extreme for chronic use in adult patients … dietary supplementation remains a possibility, including supplementation with ketogenic derivatives"

All they are looking for are pharmaceuticals to mimic ketogenic diets.

(ianrobo) #4

interesting conversation given this story today

then there is the slow movement, of course the BBC just dis a TV news story on it and showed ‘Real Food’ being eggs, fruit and veg and guess what was missing …

however no wheat based food as of course it has to be processed

(Dameon Welch-Abernathy) #5

They can sell pharmaceuticals.
They can’t sell intermittent fasting + keto.

#6

I get what your saying and agree within reason, but I’m gonna run on the assumption that something grown organically is safer than it’s equivalent that’s been sprayed with pesticides and made chemically round up resistant. A lot of what most of us believe is staying away from test tube food and trying to eat “real” foods. While many things may be opinion when it comes to organic vs non organic I can’t come up with a valid argument for eating stuff that we KNOW is hosed down in everything available for farmers to use on them. I’m a truck driver that works for a company that does both landscape supplying and agriculture, and when I’m delivering drums of chemicals to farms that’s going to be sprayed on crops that have hazmat placards on them all I can say is… I’M GOOD!

(Stan Brooks) #7

Do you understand that organic food is also sprayed with pesticides? It seems from reading what you said that you don’t which wouldn’t surprise me because most people don’t realize that. Here is a Good Scientific American Article. And if you think there is some bias in that story here is a pro Organic site that also admit (while trying to put a spin on it I believe) that organic uses pesticides.

Don’t fall for the natural fallacy and think chemicals = bad. Everything is made of chemicals.

I present to you the simple egg as told by a chemist:

ingredients-of-an-all-natural-egg2.jpg604×854 216 KB

Link to Site

#8

Yes, their still sprayed with “pesticides”, my company also distributes the organic ones. But let’s be realistic when we talk about “pesticides” in our food supply IMO I don’t think many people are talking about an Organic farmer using Neem Oil’s, Cayenne sprays, Garlic based solutions, Onion and Citrus oils, Peppermint etc the list goes on. Organic pesticides are almost always simply REAL things that insects don’t like. Yes there’s still a small amount with some more science behind them than that but as a whole nothing too scary. That’s a very different discussion than worrying about things like Glyphosate and countless fungicides in our food. We sell numerous chemicals that are cross marketed to both the turf industry and the ag industry. Same chemicals, different branding, the turf version will say to wear protective clothing, have hazmat placards, show the dead fish floating eviro placard on it, yet the ag version just because the dose is SLIGHTLY less is somehow harmless…YA! I don’t think so. We have a thing call an RQ (Reportable Quanity) in the HAZMAT world, I regularly move drums of crap for our ag customers that if more than a gallon spills… ONE gallon, I’m legally supposed to call in a HAZMAT team and then we have to self report to the feds that it happened. But don’t worry, it’s FINE that it’s on our food. I’m good!

(Stan Brooks) #9

No. They still spray pesticides. No dismissive quote are necessary or correct.

And normal pesticides are almost always simply lab made things that insects don’t like. Again don’t let yourself fall for the natural fallacy. As i showed in the example about, all things are made of chemicals and can be wrote down to a log list of scary sounding words.

That’s because no one has every taught you that’s the dose that makes the poison. That’s why you can die from drinking too much water and not die from eating a tide pod on youtube.

#10

Then we disagree, because the “dose makes the poison” argument is used as a way of saying a POISON in a less then lethal amount is somehow ok and not a poison anymore because it doesn’t kill you upon ingestion or that it means it won’t screw you up huge over time. Sugar won’t kill you if you have some, OR if you have a lot. But over time I think ALL of us here see’s what it does to our bodies. You keep going back to “all things are made of chemicals”, and? That’s not the argument, the argument is staying away from chemicals that have been shown to screw us up. Same goes with “pesticide”, YES peppermint oil CAN be called a pesticide, simply because it repels pests. YES it has a chemical composition, and that’s irrelevant because again, when 99% of people hear or use the word pesticide their not thinking of, or using that word to describe an oil that smells like cayenne. Your intentionally using the words chemical and pesticide in an overly literal sense as a strawman. Your fully aware of what the overwhelming majority of people everywhere mean and think when those words are used.

(Stan Brooks) #11

Yeah it is, like water. In correct amounts it’s fine. Too much kills you.

For most people that’s absolutely true. Hell for me ,a type 2 diabetic, I can eat some sugar with no ill effects. It’s the dose that makes the poison.

And so when you are spraying things from your truck it might be peppermint. Just made in a lab and with it’s chemical name. It might be label hazmat because in a concentrated form peppermint is poisonous to human. The dose makes the poison.

Due to marketing by organic food makers yes you are correct.

Overly literal? Is there even such a thing? No I am using them correctly. Sorry if that upsets you it’s not a strawman. It’s what they are. Yes I am aware that most people get this wrong. This is due to bad science and marketing and I attempting to correct that.

#12

your hilarious.

(Karen) #13

Is this being scored? Like tennis?

Kidding. Interesting points though

K

#14

I’ll take organic versus chemical any day. And I know exactly what I am talking about grew up on a farm have used both chemical and organic growing methods. I also sold chemicals at a garden center. I keep my yard and garden organic and will only buy organic. I think some people are confused but it’s not me.

(Consensus is Politics) #15

Two things off the top of my head explains that, and both are related to the human condition.

  1. “because the public at large wants to have its cake and eat it too”

  2. “wow… imagine how much money we can make by selling a pill for THIS!”

(Stan Brooks) #16

*you’re
And yes I know

Sure I mean you are wrong but you can believe what you like. I have no way stopping you. Just please don’t spread your misinformation is all I ask.

(Candy Lind) #17

If only we weren’t keto, we could break out the popcorn! :innocent:

#18

I prefer my foods to be unsprayed with any pesticides, including those certified organic. Hence I grow most of my own veggies.

If you are a proponent of only organic, please be aware of where your organic foods come from. The organic standards are set by the country/state of origin. There is not an accepted international standard, and there are few inspections to guarantee that what you pay for is indeed ‘organic’. Or even safe inorganic. Since organic foods carry a premium price, there is greater temptation to cheat. There have been cases of fraud in this respect at farmers’ markets.

I don’t know the percent, but some food labeled organic is imported from out of the country. Mexico, China… And, again, each country determines what they can label as organic. And that assumes they follow their own rules. (not to mention freshness issues.)

The concept behind organically grown is great, and most organic growers are reliable and conscientious - but the reality of what you might actually get in some grocery stores might not be what you really want.

Buy from locally known growers, or better yet, grow your own.