This idea that higher fat, lower protein = higher ketones: any studies at all on this?


(Bean) #21

I’m managing autoimmune with a therapeutic ketogenic carnivore diet. I did carnivore for 6 months before transitioning to PKD macros. My mental health is better and my overall health is much more … durable. ETA I’ve also been able to reintro some animal foods I was previously intolerant to.

Re: blood sugar. I was running 105 on carnivore and am more like 85 on PKD.

I’ve also begun to lose weight again after an 8ish month stall.


(Bean) #22

I weigh the meat and fat separately. It’s a pain at first, but after keeping notes on my most common foods, I know the % off the top of my head.


(Bob M) #23

Interesting.

I’ve gotten down to my lowest weight (belts all at end holes), while eating higher protein, lower fat. I’m also the strongest I’ve been since I was a 2X year old (I’ll never get to that level again, due to torn rotator cuffs). Do have blood sugar > 100 in the morning though.


#24

Sadly, that doesn’t work for me. It may be fine for the fat caps (except no, doing it EVERY TIME, nope, I quit :smiley: well if the cap looks exactly the same every time… but it doesn’t… Okay I don’t often buy beef so maybe that is more well behaving but I don’t think so…) but there are marbled and fat capped (not evenly at all) meats. I can’t possibly take it apart - and honestly, I don’t want to. I like to fry meat where most pieces have meat and fat alike as that is the best… And if I make a roast, I clearly don’t cut it up. But I eat pork. (My current beef is marbled too though…)

Maybe one can learn to guess it looking at it. Not me but some people… I still guess the fat percentage of my fat but I am aware it can be VERY off sometimes. Not when I eat it at my ideal fattiness level, I am sensitive to that but when I eat something really fatty…

Makes sense but now I wonder what your grams did… So higher protein was more grams or just a bigger percentage…? :thinking: I still would expect the same result for myself either way but I wish to keep my protein as low as possible… Now I try to change my macros and experiment with leaner days (as much protein as normal just less fat - though less fat may result in a bit less protein too).


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #25

I imagine that’s because there aren’t any.

Dr, Chaffee maintains–on the basis of who knows what evidence, though my personal experience suggests he may be correct–that the liver manufactures enough bile acid to deal with the amount of fat the body needs, and then the excess fat gets excreted. So I don’t know what that does to the hypothesis you describe. I read an article by Amber once, in which she speculated that eating more fat might benefit people whose fat intake was insufficient (because of fear of fat, or whatever), but I haven’t seen any evidence that eating fat past the point of what is needed will increase ketone production. If Chaffee is right, the excess gets excreted, helping prevent constipation.

To me, this notion sounds like the same sort of speculation that led to the dogma that “excess protein turns to cake in your liver.” We know know that the picture of gluconeogenesis is far more nuanced than that. I suspect that this hypothesis of accelerated ketogenesis will turn out to be the same sort of deal.


#26

They are an interesting treatment facility. Using the Paleo Ketogenic Diet and fatty Hungarian indigenous pork. They have a few case study papers about the glucose to ketone ratio (GKI) in therapeutic nutrition.

https://www.paleomedicina.com/en?page=tartalom&tipus=cikk

There is a C-peptide one that may interest Bob @ctviggen?


(Megan) #27

Lower protein definitely matters for some people, at least. Who knows how many and what degree. I have no clue what difference higher fat makes, as far as ketone production tho.