The Magic of Meat and Potatoes and Fat


#1

Have come down with a stinker of a cold, so this may not be my best worded post ever, but I came across a blog recently called Tender Grassfed Meat and I’ve been reading several of the blog writer’s posts which I found very interesting. One of those blog posts was titled The Magic of Meat and Potatoes and Fat, and it’s an interesting read, claiming that potatoes, when combined with fat, does not have the same impact on the body, on insulin, as when eaten on their own. But it makes sense, when thinking about how my ancestors would have eaten potatoes traditionally, they would have either baked them with cream and butter, or served them with butter. My ancestors ate a lot of fish, more so than meat perhaps, and potatoes with everything. And the traditional spices they would have used and still use are salt and pepper. So it was really interesting reading this article and finding that this way of eating was common in other places in the world as well as Europe, before the introduction of the current food pyramid.

On a side note, I’ve been thinking of incorporating potatoes (organic, thus pesticide and chemical free) into my WOE, as I believe they could be beneficial. I realise they’re not considered a keto food per se, but I’m already drinking a glass of raw milk a day, and I suppose that isn’t really considered keto either. But I am more interested in how people would have eaten traditionally, and what actually worked for them. And potatoes aren’t really associated with diabetes and obesity, it tends to be the refined grains and processed foods that are the culprits. I will also be buying some grassfed organ meats, and incorporate them into this WOE, so it’ll mainly be raw milk, pastured eggs, some grassfed organ meats, grassfed beef or pastured pork dripping and potatoes, and I think that’s how the older generations would have traditionally eaten, before meat and saturated fat was demonised.

Anyway, here is the article if anyone is interested. Any thoughts and opinions are welcome. Do any of you eat potatoes or would you consider that a NO on keto?

http://www.tendergrassfedmeat.com/2010/10/15/the-magic-of-meat-and-potatoes—and-fat/


#2

Keto is about eaten carbs vs your personal ketosis carb limit.
Milk is carby but a small glass may easily fit your keto.
Potato is very carby and we rarely eat it in tiny amounts. Though I will when I make my deer goulash :wink: And even if one could eat just a bit, it’s not a good choice for most ketoers. It’s just a mild bite, we could use those precious (if they are that. they were on my original keto) carbs on better stuff that gives us more benefits. And some of us just can’t say at 1 potatoes in some circumstances (my experience from last time when I faced a bowl of potatoes boiled in their skin. I actually ate one small. in that minute. I was hungry later too).

I myself don’t see ANY value in potatoes when I have normal food but it’s me.

I only ate potato in keto when there were a few slices in my veggie soup. Or when I snatched a tiny very very well fried piece from my SO’s plate. More is just way too carby, I couldn’t afford that.
And now if I want to be wild and do keto instead of carnivore(-ish), I rather eat something I enjoy in smaller amounts :smiley: Like fruit. Or a walnut pancake (carnivore pancake, of course except the filling). Or chocolate. Even honey, we have a wonderful nutty one now. That was I would only eat a few grams of extra carbs. Potato brings 15 even if I am super disciplined and deep-fry a tiny one (but if we don’t have a tiny one just a small one, it’s already 20. and I don’t count the onion that probably would follow, they are GREAT together). I prefer my potato fried as that is the most joyful for me, I eat it the slowest and the potato itself has the lowest carb/calories ratio due to the fat. And I get potato (and probably onion) flavored fat out of it. But I hate deep-frying anything so it’s a few times a year. Because a spiralled potato with 100% crunch and fun is so very tempting.

Did I say potato was one of my HUGE fav before low-carb? But if it’s not chips, I have to eat it galore. And IDK why people thing potato is the most satiating thing ever (some studies probably showed it for some reason. humans are weird), it’s carbs so I can eat it almost forever, it keeps me hungry. And it has a unique flavor. Nothing can replace potato, I mean while being similar to it. Only potato has potato flavor and it’s great. But I still can’t be satisfied with 1-2 potatoes. So nope. My high-carb times are over. And even my off days I can live without potatoes. Mostly. Sometimes I eat a bit. Fond memories but I ate tons of it on low-carb, it is enough for my whole life or almost.

Meat and potatoes are tasty together but a very bad fit for me. I would get nicely satiated and satisfied with the meat alone - and then the carbs mess up everything.


#3

Hi Shinita, I’d be happy with one small potato or half of a larger one. And yes, the glass of raw milk I drink daily now is small, not a pint sized one. So I guess it’ll be a matter of whether I can stay in ketosis, eating a few potatoes a week, as well as drinking the raw milk. Ketosis is beneficial to me because it did away with my inflammation and lipoedema related pain. So I suppose I’ll know if I’m kicked out of ketosis. I have a cold at the mo though and keeping myself dosed up on paracetamols, at least Big Pharma is good for that, so been dealing with fever aches anyway. But my cold won’t last forever, and I’m sure I’ll know one way or another, whether incorporating raw milk and potatoes will kick me out of ketosis.


#4

You have chances for ketosis then.
Your potato idea is unusual but whatever works for you. I don’t see what a tiny potato could give you but I don’t know a lot of things.
And I hope you will stick to some kind of woe eventually for a little while, you keep changing it very often but you did have problems on what you tried so I get it you are searching for the right specific one…

I have read the article. Wow, meat is demonized in the US? What messed up country is that?
I never saw meat demonizing except from the worst vegans but they don’t count. Red meat has a bad press and I saw some subtle nudges towards vegetarianism but meat in general? No, people eat meat, I know from my vegetarian years that buying some food without meat was a nightmare and totally impossible in some buffets. People don’t understand WHY I don’t want to eat meat, that is food…

No, not grass-fed meat is the only right meat. Many animals DON’T live on grass alone as they can’t and we still eat them. Not beef is the only meat.

And not everyone is rich. I wouldn’t like to eat oh so proper food for a week at most and starve for the rest of the month (I would die in 1-2 years, probably) while my body is quite happy with cheap supermarket food. My mind would be happier with better, hopefully my future is brighter and I am still choosy to some extent but posh organic stuff and beef, I wouldn’t live on that if I could.

More farm pork would be nice though. But the availability is so little I couldn’t even get my beloved chuck that way! Maybe next time. It’s so much more cheaper than the cheapest beef cut! And I prefer it.

And if I can choose, fatty pork and gherkins (maybe some pickled pearl onions or a few slices of radish), they are some ultimate combo. Not meat and potatoes. That’s tasty but I like some crunch and juice… I would open gherkins for my meat and potatoes. If I was into carbs with meat. I am not.
Potatoes are kinda nice but… Mild. Why to dilute my meat joy? Okay, I go, my relationship with carnivore is way too deep for potatoes and patience towards them… :smiley:

I don’t like when people act like only their taste and definition of healthy food would be right. Things are way more individual.

I can’t do much with the PH thing as I don’t know these things but my body definitely didn’t complain about the lack of potatoes this far. It is happiest with carni food so I doubt I do something very wrong here. It would be interesting to read about that more but I don’t know if it could change my eating habits, highly unlikely…


(KM) #5

In addition to being high carb, potatoes tend to have a very high glycemic index. That is, the carbohydrate they contain is very quickly converted to glucose and spikes blood sugar a lot. Of course everyone is different, you can’t know this for yourself for sure unless you try it, but I would guess your limit to stay in ketosis would be extremely low.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #7

Starches are fattening, that’s all I know. Go ahead an eat potatoes if you wish, and let us know the results of the experiment. You might want to do a forum search on the Croissant Diet, and @ctviggen’s experience with it. It doesn’t involve potatoes, but it does involve the notion that enough fat is protective.

Since glazed doughnuts were my carbohydrate of choice, back in the day, and I weighed over 300 lbs./136 kg, I am pretty convinced that pretty much any combination of carbohydrate and fat is not good for me.


#8

I require Carnivore as my lifestyle so hard no.

But absolutely feel ya on your post and I ‘get the chat’ about ‘centuries ago’ what our ancestors ate and more. I understand you finding you and a dail eating plan that works best for ya and ya wanna try it…I say try it!!

Your raw milk is fine on Keto plan if it suits you, fits into your ‘carb allowance’ and all that thru the macros this Keto plan provides is cool.

Now on taters…if you can fit them in and get results do it.

Me and you and ‘our ancestors’ will never, ever share the same life, health medical improvements, ’ a real ancient tater and what it was to the GMO tater of today, lifestyle of hard labor sun up to sun down to produce that potatoe on the plate and more…but if you can eat a tater, control your results you desire in your eating plan and do well, I say go for it!

The only thing to truly justify if a tater suits you in your life is to try and see if it does. Simple as that truly cause we can debate and compare ‘what a tater was long long centuries ago for ancestors’ and ‘how a tater fits into our eating plan’ today for decades as we all know, it is only about us and what we can eat, hold plan, get results we want and thrive.

Do you on this one :slight_smile: More power to ya!!


(Jane) #9

I looked up several foods and the glycemic index they listed did not match my experience wearing a CGM for a week.

Bread is 75, rice is 73 and potatoes are 78.

I tried all 3 and rice spiked my glucose significantly higher than bread or potatoes and it has the lowest glycemic index of the 3. My glucose also came down the fastest, so the insulin spike was short which may be more beneficial than the glucose rise itself.

To answer the OP’s question - I grow my own potatoes so I eat them sparingly for a couple of months a year. I don’t grow a huge amount as they would go bad before I could eat them, but they are better than store-bought. I grow the Red Pontiac variety and was surprised I could tell the difference in flavor. I’ve tried growing other varieties and couldn’t tell the difference.


#10

Hi Paul, when I was eating a lot of bread, and I mean a lot of bread, buns, pizza etc, I never did fancy pasta all that much, I never gained an ounce of weight, but I wasn’t healthy. The same time as I started keto, I also gave up gluten and wheat and it made me feel infinitely better. I never did start keto for weightloss, but to treat my lipoedema and reduce lipoedema related pain, and ketosis did this for me wonderfully. I am slimming down my SO says and I’ve stopped weighing myself as the scales are useless anyway, though not looking emaciated. But I notice my clothes are looser. But that’s by the by, a potato is not the same as a glazed donut or a croissant. I believe refined grains and shop bought breads can account for a lot of people’s level of inflammation and illnesses. A potato on the other hand, in my experience, does not spike blood sugar in an unhealthy way, or the same way as say, a donut. If I ever ate a donut in the past it would always make me ill, due to the level I suppose of fat and sugar. But I’ve never been a foodie, I look at food as nutrition solely and am always trying to research what is the best nutrition. And I believe a daily potato can fit in just fine. I don’t seem to put on weight from what I’m eating, but what I do look out for is the health of my lymphatics and how food affects it. As my legs look much better in the morning than in the evening, and that’s down to lymphatics. I also have bilateral calf and ankle swelling, even though in my clothes I look straight up and down as I don’t have the atypical lipoedema pear shape. And I suppose I would know if I was kicked out of ketosis because my inflammation and pain would return. At the moment though I have a cold that’s giving me fever aches and making it painful to swallow and my appetite has gone out the window, but that won’t last. So it’s something I’ll be able to assess, and take out of my WOE again if need be.


#11

yea me too being a farmer I tried all heirloom and current offer on the market and more and in the end, there was slight variance that ‘stood one tater’ in big taste diff. I know one thing I hated Yukon Gold cause it tasted so sweet to me it was ‘un-tater like’ LOL but key being what did ‘they do’ to manipulate that species of tater maybe? No idea but I wonder on it or was it me, becoming more off carbs and it tasted more weird> again no clue but I feel ya on the tater farming of it.


#12

Hi Jane, I suppose this is also one of those things that could be individual? But it doesn’t surprise me when I read something about a certain food, and then discover it to be wrong. There is a lot of false information on the internet. And a lot of bias. But as to potatoes, I was never to keen on them in the past, but I remember my grandad ate them with every meal, and he was in very good shape for his age. When I see people obese on the street, I don’t think to myself oh they must be eating potatoes. But I do think they must be eating too many refined grains and carbohydrates, bread, biscuits, buns, cakes etc, though I could of course be wrong. That you grow your own food is wonderful and eating seasonally, even better. I think there is no perfect WOE that doesn’t have some variation, even carnivore. If one only eats one type of animal, and one particular cut, I don’t see that as healthy long term. But if one was fortunate enough to be able to eat nose to tail, include several organ meats as well as musclemeats, then the WOE instantly to me anyway looks better. I am still closest to carnivore, or I should call it ketowore. So apart from raw milk and potatoes, it would be a meat and fish based WOE. The potatoes I am looking to buy are from a farm, certified organic, chemical and pesticide free, but it would still of course be better to grow my own. I realise nothing’s perfect. We all have different starting points when coming into this WOE and differing goals, so it’s down to N=1.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #13

That’s great. For you. Not so much for me.

I ate a lot of potatoes too, and gained weight from them. So to me, there’s not that much difference. Even today, if someone in the house buys French fries and I snack on a couple, I feel it the next day, because even if it isn’t enough to kick me out of ketosis, I still feel achey and creaky.

If you can eat potatoes without ill effects on your body, go for it. You don’t need the permission of anyone on these forums to do so. Just be aware that glucose from any carb source elevates your blood glucose, and this provokes an insulin response. You may be healthy enough that the insulin response won’t be too damaging and will get the excess glucose out of your blood quickly enough so that it won’t cause damage either. If so, why not eat potatoes, if you like them and want them?


#14

Thanks Fangs, I figure I’ll know if I’m kicked out of ketosis as my inflammation and old aches will likely return. And if that happened well then, gone with that potato. I know what you’re saying about how the palate changes. I am drinking the raw milk for health benefits, to benefit and rebuild my gut as opposed to including it because I like it so much and think it’s a treat, so far I am finding it too sweet, as my WOE has been and is very close to carnivore or ketowore. I even think my eggs taste sweet, but that’s a much more subtle sweetness which I like. Lately because I came down with a cold nothing has tasted particularly good to me, and I seem to have lost my interest in food, but I know that won’t last. Colds suck. This morning I stopped by the local farm and got some more of her free range pastured eggs. It’s a nice farm, and I wish I could buy all my produce from farms here about, but that isn’t yet possible. But of course we would all like to get back to a simpler way of life, and a more ethical at that. So I respect so much the local farmers in my village for their hard work, I really do. Anyway, just getting that raw grassfed milk, and those pastured eggs, feels like a really big step in the right direction for me.


#15

Hi Paul, I know I don’t need permission, but I was interested in hearing the forum members’ thoughts, as I like to share thoughts and ideas. But I suppose it always comes down to N=1 in the end, as we’re all so different. I have been reading Dr Phinney who believe in a well formulated ketogenic WOE, though I’m not sure he’d reccommended potatoes. And I will continue to read the information I come across from the various lowcarb and ketogenic supporters and researchers. It is all very interesting to me. But I don’t believe all carbs are equal, that they are not essential and that all plants are toxic. It is not how I see it. But some of us will have reactions, experiences that differ, and that again boils down to N=1.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

Potatoes are on most experts’ stay-away-from lists, going back to the early nineteenth century. The Diet Doctor site and Dr. Noakes’s banting site both have lists of good keto foods, bad keto foods, and foods to be careful with on keto. Dr. Westman’s “page 4” is also available in many incarnations. I try to go by their recommendations.


(Chuck) #18

Not all who are overweight by the charts are really overweight for their body build. It depends on the person I have seen a number of us in the military that were disciplined for be overweight but when it came down to fat measurements we were under fat to the point of being unhealthy.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #19

Yeah, BMI is not a very useful index. If you have too much muscle, you still get classified as overweight, even obese. It’s too simplistic a measure to be useful in all cases.


(KM) #20

Another woman similar to me in height and age on this forum has the exact same waist measurement, but she weighs 20 lb less than I do. I feel like most of these formulas for fat calculation are probably nonsense, although a comparison of one’s own measurements over time can point out the direction one’s composition is moving in.


(Robin) #21

It will be interesting to see how this experiment goes for you. Fingers crossed. Don’t worry about ketones…. Just note how you feel.
Your condition is your barometer. Good luck!


#22

Thanks Robin, I have a cold at the moment so must admit no food except the pastured eggs are tasting good. But it’ll pass. It’ll be an interesting experiment. I agree about my condition being the barometer, the health of my lymphatics, lack of inflammation, water retention, etc. So if my body let me know I was headed in the wrong direction then gone with the potato. I think I have become pretty good at listening to the body.