The Late Night Monster just woke up

(Robin) #21

I used to just go ahead and go to the bathroom and make myself throw up till all the sourness was gone. I think my hiatal hernia compounded the issue. Or maybe it was caused BY the issue. Who knows. I’m just glad those nights are behind me. And you! yay us!


you are fine in your changes AS LONG as there are no plant eating backwords and you are eating to YOU on this lifetsyle.

Yes you are adapted to fat intake but life means per you as an individual you eat ZC as you need…never ever go wrong with just that!

(Marianne) #23

No plants.


then let ZC take you away and go all in on your path!

(Robin) #25

What don’t I make in it? Brisket, steak, pork chops… basically any meat. Seasoning and a bit of butter. Because, butter.
Tonight is our first veggies (for Jeff) but I hear they are REALLY good that way.
They are also phenomenal at heating leftovers that would get mushy in a microwave…. Again just Jeff.
I put off trying it cuz I was intimidated by the instruction book. Now I count on it. You would probably love one.

(Marianne) #26

The instruction book that came with mine was a joke - really horrible. I will have to pick your brain about cook times, temperature, etc., for meat. We will have wings in it tonight for the game.

(Kirk Wolak) #27

I am an emotional eater with food addictions. So, my experience is probably not yours.
But I Find it helpful to ask WHY I am wanting to eat:

  • Nutrient Seeking?
  • Growling Stomach/Hunger Pangs?
  • Jonesing for something?
  • Boredom
  • Stressed (or just dealt with stress)

FWIW, I can see a 30-50 point swing in my glucose, on a fasting day, just from dealing with stress. Which then drives a crash in glucose, and deep cravings…

As a Carnivore… My rule is simple. If I am willing to eat (and then only eat) sardines, burger patties or liver… Then I am OKAY. Although I can (and do) overeat those from time to time, they have a natural stopping point for me. I get tired of Liver and sardines very quickly.

Now, if I am jonesing for my old addictions that are not carnivore… It’s emotional, or a response, or I’ve been triggered…

Finally, I’ve had to cut out bacon. It’s the comfort food for carnivores, and I could eat (and have) 36 servings in a single sitting… I reserve bacon for special treats, like others would treat cheesecake! LOL

So, if you ask yourself why you are eating, and your body says it is hungry… It really might be. I would also review that you are not eating too little in your normal meals (the carnivore community speaks of the gentler half having a tendency to under eat)…


(Robin) #28

Thanks for this. Some good points. Though, I don’t miss carbs.
As a recovered alcohol and ex-smoker, I believe my ability to draw an uncrossable line in the sand is one of my super powers. Saved my life, I am sure. Long way of saying, it’s not what I would classify as a craving. I remember cravings.

It’s more like a nudge from my body and there is always a random piece of chicken or steak in the fridge to answer the call. I think you are probably right. I may need the calories sometimes.
I haven’t tracked anything since I went carnivore. But I have not gained weight as most have experienced. I was ready for that, but it never occurred. So perhaps I need “more”.
Anyway, I’ve decided to pay attention throughout the day. It’s possible the only time my brain can deliver hunger messages is when I am sitting down at night, usually with a book. Now that I have brought it up in the forum, my night time treks to the fridge have decreased.
Oh, the power of naming it and then putting it out there… I usually find my balance fairly easily.
Thanks for the “wellness check”. Hope you are doing well, too.

(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #29

I wish I could remember the title and author, but I read a study last year showing that intake and expenditure never seem to match very closely on any given day, but that over seven or eight days, the match is astonishingly precise (astonishing to the researchers, at any rate). So on days I am hungrier, I eat more, and on the other days, I eat less. I cycle within the same ten pounds over a period of one or two weeks, regardless of my eating pattern, so obviously the high-appetite and -intake days are not a problem.

My guess is that when we worry about such things despite eating the appropriate human diet, it is the residue of a century of “eat less, move more” conditioning rearing its ugy head.

(Robin) #30

Aren’t you smart! That dang “residue” (good word) of “eat less be tiny” is hard to kill. Maybe I need an exorcism or at least a de-programming. Or at the very least, a good sage smudging.

Or some bacon.

(David Spector) #31

If you are only eating meat, you are not getting enough vitamins. See a specialist if you can afford it, or at least add some supplements. Just my opinion.

(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #32

This is debatable. In fact, there are some vitamins that are found only in meat, and they have been shown to have a better effect on the body when eaten as part of the meat they come in, than when consumed in pill form.

(David Spector) #33

I would be very interested, Paul, in the vitamins that are available only in meat. Please give details and a reference for this surprising news. I assume you’re not referring to B vitamins, B12 in particular, which are easy to get in pill form, since I already recommended taking vitamin supplements.

(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #34

You said, “If you are only eating meat, you are not getting enough vitamins.” However, meat, fish, and poultry are recommended sources of many vitamins and minerals.

Here is the result of some admittedly haphazard research. Vitamin B12 is not available from plant sources, so if you eat only plants, you will not be getting any B12, whereas you can get enough by eating only meat. On the other hand, I didn’t see any meats listed as good sources of vitamin A, but many ketonians get plenty from spinach and kale. (I’d go easy on the carrots and sweet potatoes, myself.) I believe B3 can be found in some plant sources, but not in enough quantity for them to be listed in any of the tables I found. The data below come from the Harvard Medical School, WebMD, and the U.S. government.

My belief is that if our diet is not supplying all the macro- and micro-nutrients we need, then there is something wrong with the diet. We should be able to get everything we need from real, unprocessed food and not have to eat fortified foods, or take supplement pills.

Vitamin Meat Source(s) Plant Source(s)
A —— carrots, sweet potatoes, spinach, kale
B3 (niacin) meats, fish, poultry
B6 organ meats chickpeas, potatoes
B7 liver, meats fruits
B12 meats, poultry, fish ——
D fish liver oils, rainbow trout, salmon, light tuna (canned), herring, sardines (canned), tilapia, flounder, dairy
vitamin E —— nuts, seeds, vegetable oils
Mineral Meat Source(s) Plant Source(s)
calcium sardines (canned), salmon (canned)
iron meats, poultry, fish beans
Iron (haeme) oysters, mussels, duck breast, turkey egg, bison, duck egg, beef, sardines (canned), crab, clams, lamb, turkey leg, shrimp, organ meats, game meats

(David Spector) #35

I appreciate all the research work you did here, but what I posted was a suggestion to take a vitamin supplement. I take one small multivitamin pill twice a day and get all the vitamins I need. I don’t have to worry how much of each vitamin is in what food, and neither does anyone else. The work has all been done for us in creating multivitamin pills. They don’t cost much. Especially for someone with a limited diet, such as meatarians, vitamins are a must.


I consider it a fact that meat can give us every nutrients to need - but meat has nothing that we couldn’t get from elsewhere. If we start to restrict our diets more and more, it may be tricky or problematic at some point, sure…
I didn’t took supplements in my vegetarian years (and in the decades with just a few meaty days per year) except on keto where a few Mg pills happened (I just hated the important low-carb vegetarian Mg sources so didn’t eat them). Okay, I never went to a doctor so I don’t have lab results, I just felt pretty healthy.

Not eating meat doesn’t mean one only eats plants… I ate PLENTY of animal food all my life, just not meat (and all animal body is meat, I don’t play this “fish isn’t meat” game, it makes no sense. fish, crab, crickets, they are all meat, yeah there are various definitions but they are definitely NOT vegetarian food items just like some other non-meat animal products).

It’s easier with meat :smiley: (And vegan ketoers are super hardcore players, I can’t even think about that thing, it’s crazy.) But I never heard about any essential nutrient we can get only from meat as there aren’t any as far as I know and experienced.

(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #37

Except Vitamin B12, apparently.


Nope, eggs have plenty of vitamin B12.
But dairy has it too. It’s very easy to get enough B12 as a vegetarian (ovo or lacto or ovo-lacto, I was the latter though I had 1-2 eggless years too).

(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #39

Sorry, by “meat” I meant “animal foods.”