The Ketogenic Diet for Health - http://www.ketotic.org/ - Amber O'Hearn


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #16

I wish I did.

But I think stating this is stating the obvious…

Pre-refrigeration, pre hybridization ( to any extent ), pre rapid transportation, the list goes on and on. Or does it?

What do you need beside those three?

Iceberg Lettuce

Introduced for commercial production in the late 1940s, Iceberg (or crisphead) lettuce was the only variety bred to survive cross-country travel (the name Iceberg comes from the piles of ice they would pack the light green lettuce heads in before the advent of the refrigerated train car). Therefore, throughout the middle of the century, unless you grew your own or dined in a high-end establishment, iceberg essentially was lettuce.


#17

Sauna.


(Bob M) #18

Could be.

They have a saying that there is no bad weather, only bad clothes.

I went and visited Finland (right next to Sweden), in September. It snowed where I was (far north), and people were out – riding their bikes. Yes, bikes.

Now, I have studded tires for my mountain bike (from – guess where? – Finland), but I thought I was the only one in the US who did that. They Finnish were not phased at all by snow.

The Swedes are very similar.

Went on summer vacation to Sweden. Went swimming in August in the local river. Holy smokes, was it cold! And that’s in summer. And it was hot there for the first day we were there. After that, it was cool to cold.


#19

When they were starving.


(Bacon is better) #20

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #21

#22

Great set of links, thank you.


#23

Don’t the majority of your calories come from plants?


(Bacon is better) #24

Can’t speak for Michael, but the majority of my calories definitely come from animal foods. If you are eating a ketogenic diet, only 80 of the 2000-2500 calories you are using come from plant food.

ETA: I have to walk that back a bit. Vegan keto is indeed possible, but it is very difficult. I don’t believe Michael is a vegan, and I certainly am not.


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #25

Because meat animals eat plants?


(Edith) #26

Well then, I can say the majority of my calories come from the sun. :laughing:


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #27

I would seriously be interested to know about any that haven’t been, at least in terms of what ends up on grocery shelves.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #28

@anon81060937 I actually posted my meals for a full two weeks while doing my Excellet Glucose Monitor Adventure here. If you’re curious enough you can look at all meal and daily summaries directly here:

http://soho-espace.com/keto-meals-log/

I’m still eating pretty much the same stuff now. My fat/protein macros are the same: 2:1 grams and 4.5:1 calories, although I recently (about 3 months ago) increased my protein intake to 124 grams and fat to 248 grams per day for a daily total of 2790 calories.

The majority of my calories come from dairy: butter (ghee), cream, many different cheeses, whey and casein. I do eat significant amounts of coconut/mct oils daily and palm oil and cacao butter several times per week but not daily. I intend to add palm kernel oil which I’ve ordered online and expect delivery within a day or two. I also eat macademia nuts once in a while, maybe 2 or 3 times per month. I also drink coffee daily, but less than 1/2 calorie comes from it.

Our paleolithic ancestors did not have any of the plant oils/fats that I currently consume. They may have eaten ripe palm fruit and probably conconuts, but had no way to concentrate and refine the oils into what I eat. And both were much smaller with less edible content than now. I think it very doubtful our ancestors consumed dairy that even remotely resembles what I eat other than being mammalian excretions. I wonder when someone adventurous guy/gal first took the gamble to try. I’d guess it was a woman who first made the association between her milk and an animal’s milk and thought “humm, I wonder…”


(Bob M) #29

It might not be exactly what you eat, as I’m not sure when cheese came along, but I listened to a podcast with Sami the Reindeer herder, and he said his family ate some fermented milk and fermented meats. Without refrigeration, you need somehow to keep animal products.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #30

No doubt. I believe the Mongolians consumed fermented mare’s milk (kumis). The most common method of meat and fish preservation was air drying, sometimes (often?) with smoke as an adjunct to speed up the process. The Plains Indians made pemmican. Way too much meat to eat after a bison kill. Traditional pemmican was simply a mix of dried meat embedded in fat and sealed in a fist sized pouch made of thin/soft bison skin. Drying and mixing with fat preserved the meat very well. One or two pouches made up a day’s rations on the trail.

I suspect that curing fish/meat in brine and the discovery of fermentation came later. Interestingly, mare’s milk contains much more sugar than other mammalian milk. So kumis made from it produces ethanol as well. I’d bet that discovery caused some excitement!


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #31

I have to say that the more I learn the more amazed I get from how savvy our paleolithic ancestors were! There’s a lot to be said for growing a big brain despite the other metabolic adjustments required to do so. We are what we are because of the Pleistocene and our ancestors’ ability to cope with it. The common misconception of ‘cave men’ as ignorant brutes is just total bullshit.


(Bacon is better) #32

Please, this is a family site. I blurred that for you.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #33

Thanks, Paul. I contemplated blurring it and then decided that it didn’t need it because bullshit is such a common expletive to describe nonsense. Maybe bullhockey or bull pucky :kissing_heart: would be better.


(Bacon is better) #34

No worries. It’s just that we do try to observe the proprieties.

But people’s sensitivities can get strange. I used to attend meetings of a group of people that went to great lengths to insist that we all speak without profanity, but in practice the only word they really objected to was the one that began with ‘F’. (And they didn’t avoid using it, they just apologised for it, every time.)


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #35

The F-word has become so prevalent in conversation that I think it will soon lose all its derogatory connotations. Even children pepper their conversations with it. We’re going to have to invent another ‘shocking’ epithet to insult each other.