The importance of genetics

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #1

I have taken a 23andme DNA test, and then I have used the raw data into some third-party applications (so far, the most complete one is Rhonda Patrick’s).

I see that some statements really fit me (I am a “hunter-gatherer”, so sugar and refined carbs are even worse for me than for others, more “farmer” type). And despite having a relatively benign profile, I see I have some negatives in my genes. And clearly, they all point in the direction of reducing drastically sugar intake, and saturated fat.

Now, I am having a keto diet with almost no sugar, and I usually have little saturated fat (not by default, but I just prefer fish to meat). And it is making wonders to me.

So, my point is: could it be that the “best WOE” is not fixed, but it depends on your own genetics?

Some people will be more hunter-gatherers, others will be more farmers. Some will blossom with lots of meat, others with lots of olive oil, vegetables and fish.

Isn’t the next frontier to do these genetic tests?

(hottie turned hag) #2

Yes. And other factors. There is no one correct WOE that suits all.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #3

Interesting observations. I think it’s more a matter of fine tuning. We’re currently in the midst of a world-wide pandemic of metabolic related/associated diseases: obesity, T2D, CVD and a host of others. This affects hundreds of millions of people around the world in every country and culture - and genetic makeup. As SAD spread around the world, so did the epidemic. We know this, but the nutrition establishment refuses to acknowledge it or recommend the changes necessary to help stop it. Yet. So it’s going to get worse before it gets better.

Some people apparently drew lucky genetic numbers, or are still young enough to resist the ultimate consequences. But most not so much. Whatever tools become available can only help.

(Justin Jordan) #4

This.

Genetics, period, has proved to be a lot more complex than was realized a couple of decades ago - there’s gene activation and epigenetics and expression that I don’t understand, and certainly a lot more I don’t understand.

But beyond that, there’s also (and this is related to genetics and such) where a person is now. The diet you would have fed me from birth to keep me healthy is (probably) not the same diet adult me needs after decades of abuse.

(Bob M) #5

That is definitely true. I think I could have started with primal (Paleo + diary), but instead started with very low fat, high carb, then beer + high carb, then SAD. The diet to correct this is more restrictive.

(Bob M) #6

Why do you think you have to reduce saturated fat?

(Justin Jordan) #7

I’m as sure as I can be without a clone or a time machine that if I’d eaten just meat, dairy, and vegetables (including starches) that I wouldn’t have ended up with type 2 diabetes. Honestly, even just not eating things with added sugar MIGHT have been enough.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #8

I have two “bad news” genetically:

I have the rs1333049(C;C), so I have a 1.9x increase risk for coronary artery disease (calcification and all that). Note: the CVD probability goes from say 1% to 1.9%, which is not too bad … but anyway, it is clearly bad news.

And I carry one APOE-E4 allele in the gs141, so my Alzheimer’s disease lifetime probability has jumped from the average 10% to 23%. Also, CVD probability goes up with this allele.

Rhonda Patrick (a supporter of keto, and of eating meat) suggests to get rid of saturated fat for the first issue. In addition to this, the recommendation to get rid of saturated fat appears several times in the comprehensive report, due to several different genes, all pointing in the same direction.

For the APOE-E4, Dr. Bredesen (who is an expert in AD) has a protocol, which is mostly keto, but also reducing saturated fat. He says that with his protocol, no APOE-E4 holder he knows has developed AD (AD is, after all, T3D).

In addition to this, I prefer fish to meat. I like Valter Longo too, and he recommends a pescetarian diet. Me, I want to be keto, so I do not buy his suggestion of legumes. So, in fact and without realizing, I am trending towards a “keto pescetarian diet”, based on olive oil, lots of fish, fish eggs, and lots of vegetables, and lots of nuts (almonds). I enjoy this food a lot, and I believe that at least, “I am not doing anything wrong”.

Having said that, I do not have the individual feeling that meat is bad for me (as I have the individual feeling that refined carbs are bad for me). From time to time, I will eat meat (and I use eggs for my chaffles).

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

I’d suggest going heavy on the oily fish, like herring, sardines, mackerel, anchovies and sprats. Lots of fish, like tuna, are not good sources of fat. Even salmon is not all that fatty. These ‘dry’ fish are great protein sources though. I’d rely less on olive oil but I think whole olives are OK in fairly substantial quantity. I have the same view of avocado oil and whole avocados. I think ‘lots of vegetables’ and ‘lots of nuts’ is probably not such a good idea. I always recommend bok choy to anyone who wants to eat veggies, lots of micronutrients and very low carbs. I think bok choy is pretty close to the perfect keto vegetable. Nuts are a mixed bag. Lots of good stuff about them. But really poor fat composition: high PUFA and terrible Omega 6/3 ratios. Also, most nuts have substantial ‘anti-nutirents’ so best eaten alone or with other foods that don’t contain nutrients they inhibit.

(Bob M) #10

That’s a tough one. My belief is that even if saturated fat were to raise your “cholesterol”, I don’t think that’s a negative in any way, shape or form. I don’t think TC or LDL is in any way (other than tangentially) related to heart disease or AD for that matter.

We’d need a long RCT to determine this, though. One with people with APOE4 who go low carb + “low” saturated fat and one who go low carb with “high” saturated fat.

You can listen to this and get Ivor Cummins’s view on APOE4 and saturated fat:

See the show notes to see the time of discussion of this topic.

#11

I always considered this very obvious.
Some people are pretty flexible too, thriving on different diets. Some of us need a quite fixed diet though we survive other diets, of course, more or less. And it’s clear to me lots of added sugar is bad for everyone, just like overeating. But we can’t find a great woe that works for everyone, we are just too different. And we change too, a bad diet can ruin things for a while… Eating extreme low-carb made me quickly very unwell 8-10 years ago… It’s the best feeling now.