Test Strips - Not a True Indication or

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #1

Early on (3 months ago) my strips were nice and dark purple and sometimes they still are, but recently I’ve had some very pale ones.
Am I using Ketones better? or producing less? … it’s hard to tell. Must I splash out on a blood testing meter?
Or just forget testing and Keto On?

(Bob M) #2

After a while, the urine strips don’t work well. You’re basically producing fewer ketones in your urine. They are also more affected (relative to blood ketones) by how much you drink.

I would say that if you’re feeling good and eating few carbs, it’s probably not worthwhile to test. Unless there is some reason to have high ketones, say you feel better. The only problem with that is after a while, your body won’t have high ketones.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #3

Yeah, I feel OK. Carb consumption hasn’t changed, I do have some … perhaps if I did zero carbs for a day or two it would confirm things if the strips still read low

(Bob M) #4

At some point, your urine ketones will go down. I stopped using them years ago because they didn’t match blood and breath ketones. But in general, if you’re like me, your ketones will slowly go down:

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Hmm…I know I have a better version of this, showing blood ketones at 0.1 and 0.2 or so every morning toward 2021. Can’t find it right now, though.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #5

I vote for the latter option.

There are too many possibilities here. To begin with, urine strips are a rough guide, not a precise measurement. And they are measuring excreted acetoacetate, in any case, so as your kidneys get better at retaining it, it shows up less in the urine.

Another consideration is that you are now fat-adapted. Your skeletal muscles are no longer limping along on ketones, which are partially-metabolised fatty acids (much as charcoal is partially-burnt wood), but are refusing glucose and ketones and using fatty acids as their fuel, saving the glucose and ketones for other organs that have a greater need. So your liver has no doubt cut back on ketone production, because there’s not as great a need.

I read on these forums years ago, that there is a sure-fire way to tell whether you are in ketosis:

  1. Are you eating less than 20 g of carbohydrate a day?

  2. Are you breathing in and out?

If you can answer yes to both these questions, you are in ketosis.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #6

Thanks Guys … The only certainty is the breathing in and out (correct at the time of publishing)
20g of carbs, just under or just over. But all being well the test strip results … or lack of them I’ll take as a good thing, right?

(Denise) #7

LMBO! Well, I’m only eating 23 g so where does that leave me, maybe half-acetoacetated :laughing:

(Joey) #8

I second this motion (i.e., forget testing).

Confession: It’s easier to say “stop testing” than it is to do so. I was a testing freak, logging data like preparing for a moon launch. Eventually, the numbers settled down to be of little magnitude… and ergo of little interest. :vulcan_salute:

(KM) #9

I have one other thought to add. These keto sticks apparently go bad. I was surprised to find that the manufacturer does not recommend using them after 3 months (and not too pleased, since I bought a jar of 300. I really don’t need to test my pee four times a day.).I’m not usually a stickler for expiration dates, but I’m wondering if some of the lack of color so many experience after a while could have something to do with the product, not the ketones.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #10

Not in this case … I bought a small tub and use them daily. Or was! Have lost some faith in them and will now trust my instincts.
But thanks for thinking about me :hugs:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #11

The strips work great for their intended purpose, which is to alert Type I diabetics that they are at risk for an episode of ketoacidosis.

The only reason they are recommended for ketonians is simply that they are relatively inexpensive and easy to use. They are a good guide for beginners. But a blood meter is more accurate.

However, even a blood meter can cause anxiety as the person progresses on keto, because it does seem that the liver after a while starts to co-ordinate production more closely to demand. My complete and total guess is that it has something to do with fat-adaptation. At first, the liver makes extra ketones for the skeletal muscles, but once they re-adapt to metabolising fatty acids again, they start refusing the ketones. I wonder if it isn’t at that point that the liver starts to cut back, since a really large amount of ketones is no longer necessary.

In any case, Dr. Stephen Phinney says that his research with Professor Volek shows that, while 1.0 mmol/dL of β-hydroxybutyrate might be better than 0.5 mmol/dL, 2.0 appears to confer no extra advantage over 1.0. So chasing ketones is not necessary.

Now that’s as far as nutritional ketosis is concerned. For people with brain injuries or mental health problems, checking ketone levels and keeping them up can be important for relieving symptoms and healing the brain. But that’s a special case and doesn’t apply to the average ketonian.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #12

Thanks Paul.
With that in mind I assume a ketone breath meter would be no more effective than the urine test? …for the same reasons.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #13

Pretty much, yes. Now, some people continue to make a lot of ketones, while others don’t. I don’t believe anyone really knows why. And as Prof. Bikman points out, the level of ketones is really just an indicator of what metabolic state we’re in. Insulin pretty much switches the body from fat-burning to fat-storing, once it rises above a certain level. The fact that we can measure ketones at home makes them a good proxy for whether insulin is low enough or not (since no one has come up with a home insulin test, yet). The real concern is not our ketone production, so much as it is our ratio of insulin to glucagon.

#14

That reminds me…I must watch Argo again before the weekend is over.

#15

I would use test strips…but I think they are taking the piss.

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

#16

:sweat_smile:

(Denise) #17

Oh shoot Paul!! You hit on something that could really help me with my brain (GABA and Glutamate Receptors) that were pretty much taken over by the benzondiazapine I am on, but progressively/safely weaning off of! I may just be getting old with the whole memory issues I am having, or it could be the 1mg of clonazepam I’ve been trusting the “doctors” on for 35 years.

I’m doing my homework on this, won’t share any more unless someone is interested, but I’m pretty excited about hearing ketones can help with that issue! Maybe that’s why I’m thinking more clearly, memory is better etc. after getting on Keto before I tried weaning off. Here’s a post I’ve saved and re-read as it rings true for me, I’m hoping at least, but it hits on what Paul talks about in the Brain Injury part:
Regarding Brain Injury or Mental Illness

#18

I would use test strips…but I think they are guilty of extracting the urine.

(Denise) #19

What is Argo coop?

(Denise) #20

actually, you need to use a kitchen strainer first, or coffee filter, coffee filter more thorough, lol!