Test Breath Ketones without a Ketonix (using a cheap breathalyzer)

ketonix
acetone
breath
(Running from stupidity) #689

Yeah, read that a while ago and decided it wasn’t giving any useful data. Which is fine, that’s the point of testing these things, but I think he’s tried really hard to find a useful correlation and I don’t think he has.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #690

There was a forum member who used to tout breath acetone as more accurate than serum BOHB. The only study I’ve ever seen to support that notion was published by a company that was trying to market a breath meter. And they appear to have since become defunct.

(Jane) #691

What a surprise. NOT.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #692

Hi Janie. Are you still testing your GKI?

(Jane) #693

Only when I fast. I think my husband and I will be doing a 36-hr fast starting Tuesday after dinner.

The data is more interesting on a multi-day fast but I don’t see an opportunity any time soon with my work schedule.

(DougH) #694

I am late to the game here, and it will take me a long time to read through the entire history of this thread.

I use a cheapo amazon breathalyzer to give me an indication of ketosis, and to provide a relative measurement compared to past readings and situational context.

I have never tested blood ketones so I don’t have anything to correlate the readings to. On my average diet it will reads anywhere from .05 - .11. Also there is a linear trend when I am water fasting, which seems to top out around .11 or .12 after I have been in the fast for 24hrs.

For me it was a cheap way to measure that there is at least some level of ketosis occurring. And by comparing meal to meal I can infer how a given meal impacted me.

(Thomas) #695

So I have one of those cheap keychain breathalyzers and have had a constant of BAC between .12 - .15, so I assume that is good, right?

(Todd Allen) #697

I’ve got 3 breathalyzers and each has a different calibration. One is very sensitive at low levels but then rises slowly with increasing ketones. Another requires fairly deep ketosis to get a non zero reading but then increases very rapidly. The 3rd is in between the other two.

The best way to interpret the numbers on these things is to compare them to something else that is meaningful to you. All that said on any of my 3 meters I hit readings of .12 to .15 when I’m in the range of 2 to 5 mmol/l on my blood ketone meter which for me is deep ketosis I typically only hit after fasting a couple days as most days I eat too much carbs and protein for deep ketosis.

What’s good depends on your goals.

(Michael) #698

[quote="MonsterTruck, post:679, topic:9450, full:
I am very curious if there is a direct correlation between the number on the breathalyzer vs blood BHB levels.
[/quote]

The simple answer to this question is:
There is no correlation between Acetone levels and serum BOHB levels

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #699

That was my impression.

Personally, I’d also be curious to know how serum levels of each of the three ketone bodies correlated with breath and urine levels. And how each correlates with the other two in the same medium.

(Michael) #700

Paul,

I think that I am the forum member you are referring to.

All I ever said basically was that Breath Acetone was a slightly lagging measure of the extent of recent burning of Ketones.

I “never” said:

I “never” would say that.

Blood Ketone levels are just that: A measure of BOHB in the Blood; this is not an indication of being in Ketosis.

Theoretically, one could take 2 double whiskeys at night in the knowledge that one’s BOHB level would at least remain static overnight because the liver must immediately turn to neutralising the alcohol first which necessitates the suspension of lipolysis while alcohol remains in the system.

Acetone escaping through the lungs is a better indicator of the current state of Ketosis

And @PaulL congrats on becoming an Admin. Your dedication to the forum is exemplary.

(Rip Linton) #701

“Class 1 registered medical device;” is a term used to make it seem like the item has been tested by the FDA and meets some standard. The reality is that class 1 devices require very little paperwork and a minimal fee to be registered. All that class indicates is that the device will, most likely, not cause any harm to the user. Band Aids are class 1 medical devices. The FDA never sees the actual device and does not do any testing of any kind on it. That is just a marketing gimmick to try to add credibility to a product.

(DougH) #702

All I know is the Ketonix folks never seem impressed when I post on their facebook adds about using a cheap breathalyzer. :rofl:

I am pretty sure they have nearly the same sensor hardware.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #703

I bought a cheap breathalyzer on Amazon. I think it’s not reliable and not very accurate. Thus, I don’t think the numbers displayed on the readout necessarily represent an accurate ppm acetone, however, I think the numbers can be used to determine trends. For example, if the numbers rise over time, I think it is accurate to conclude that more fat has been burned; if the numbers fall over time that less fat has been burned; if the numbers remain steady over time that more or less the same amount of fat has been burned.

I posted the following elsewhere but think it’s good idea to post it here, too. Although I have seen various attempts to correlate acetone and BOHB, the most successful seem to be scatter plots, I don’t really think there is any direct relationship between the two. They measure different things:

Glucose and ketones in your blood are available fuel. Acetone in your breath is the exhaust gas of fat burning. So if you want to measure fat burning, measure acetone concentration in your breath.

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(Running from stupidity) #704

Why use such an indirect method when you can just see how your clothes fit, how you’re looking and what you weigh?

(Omar) #705

The belly ( not the waist ) circumference is as accurate as you can get. better, faster, and cheaper than DEXA.

(Jane) #706

I have one and the numbers definitely rise when I am fasting and would drop to zero when I ate too many carbs, so a cheap way to monitor your ketones.

However - it cannot differentiate between burning plate fat and body fat. If you are fasting then by default body fat. But if having a BPC while still calling it a fast or eating your normal amount of fat - could be either.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #707

Other than fasting to eliminate ‘plate sourced fat’, I agree. So as you say, it’s just a quick, easy and painless way to take a snapshot of fat burning or determine a trend over a period of time without purchasing a Ketonix. Or a Levl which is more than double the cost of the Ketonix, but probably the most accurate system available.

As for relevance, I think many people start on keto to lose weight and would find it very helpful to determine whether they are actually burning fat and relatively how much. Many posters on this board express their discouragement because they aren’t losing as much weight as fast as they think they should. They might become less discouraged to know they can actually measure fat burning directly with a cheap device and painless procedure.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #708

I have a friend who is losing weight and having DEXA scans done periodically to track elimination of body fat. She forwards copies of the scans to me once in a while because I’m interested in the procedure. I find it implausible that measuring your belly circumference with a tape measure is more accurate. Cheaper, faster, yes. Better, no.

Sure, if you don’t/can’t afford the DEXA scans measure your belly circumference. Do so anyway just for encouragement of knowing it’s decreasing.

(Omar) #709

I exaggerated .

I should have said belly circumference is a good indicator and shut up.

thanks for bringing me back to my sense.