Test Breath Ketones without a Ketonix (using a cheap breathalyzer)

ketonix
acetone
breath

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #669

This is a very interesting summary of the available research. I note, however, that one of the key papers on which this article is based concluded that acetone was a reliable indicator of fat metabolism after comparing the serum BOHB and exhaled acetone of twelve (12) subjects fed four ketogenic meals over a twelve-hour period that followed a twenty-four-hour fast.

I would like to see a much larger study done over a period of at least twelve weeks, since we know that in most people fat-adaptation takes at least six to eight weeks, and that measured ketone levels often drop significantly after fat-adaptation is achieved. I would be interested to know if this relationship between the amount of acetone excreted in the breath and the amount of fat being metabolized persists after twelve hours.

I would also like to know whether Joseph Andersonā€™s company, Mediamonitor Corp., made inexpensive breathalyzers. They donā€™t show up in the Google searches I did, so I must conclude that either they are an extremely small company, or else they have gone out of business.


(Michael) #670

Hi Paul. Stephen Phinney is mainly concerned with treating diabetes. Blood ketone measurement is essential for those with Type-1 or advanced Type-2 diabetes to warn of impending coma and ketoacidosis. He therefore uses the tools at his disposal and broadens their usefulness to highlight that at lower levels in the blood, ketones are ā€œnutritionalā€.

Yes, a larger study would be informative and yes all Iā€™ve read indicates that measured blood ketone levels do drop off after fat adaption. This makes it more difficult for the average punter to know what is going on and it may have led to the idea of not measuring at all.

I like to measure and I have found the results consistent for breath for over 6 months. I pity those who are shelling out money for blood ketone measuring devices that the published diabetes research suggests they need when in fact a cheap breathalyser is in reality more effective and much cheaper but just a little too loud :loud_sound: for me.

I think everyone experiences a stall in weight loss or desired body confirmation change. I find that monitoring a few days of historical data from my breath device allows me to fine tune my diet without bothering with macros at all as I like to keep it simple.

Six months ago I had planned to buy a KetoMojo but when I checked they were not available for shipment outside the US. I am happy that I am now informed enough to know that I donā€™t need one.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #671

As long as it works for you, thatā€™s great.

Dr. Phinney is now working with diabetic patients, yes, but in the research he and Jeff Volek have done over the last twenty years on endurance athletes, they used the athletesā€™ respiratory quotient to get a better handle on whether they were burning fat or carbohydrate. Watch some of their lectures on high performance in ketosis; I think you will find them illuminating.

I remain unconvinced by the Anderson article you cited. In fact, the more I look into the research he cites, the less convinced I am.


(Michael) #672

Joseph Anderson is still involved with Mediamonitor LLC but it is not his company. The company markets the LEVL device which is rather expensive to own and run. On the LEVL website Anderson says that the gold standard really would be blood measurement of beta-hydroxybutyrate. This contrasts very much with what Michel Lundell says in his video behind the Diet-Doctor paywall but he seems to be less clear on his Ketonix website:

I am disappointed that the LEVL device and the Ketonix both claim to measure acetone in ppm. One of them seems to be out by a factor of 10 because the Ketonix is calibrated to range from 0-100ppm and the LEVL device is calibrated to a max of 8ppm.
The question for me is : Which one of them is incorrect?

I am inclined to give the Ketonix the benefit of the doubt! (for now).


(Josey M Johnson III) #673

Donā€™t be embarrassed! If they can feed their face, wipe their butt, and put clothes on, give you a hug, and say ā€œThank you, mom!ā€ YOU gave them a great start! :wink:


(Central Florida Bob ) #674

Getting back to the breathalyzers, I have an AT6000 that I bought a while ago. Most likely in '17 but I donā€™t recall exactly when.

Lately it has been acting weird. How long do these last if you use them pretty regularly? Between us, my wife and I probably use it 5 or 6 times a day. More when itā€™s acting weirdly.

Is there a way to clean out the sensor? Any maintenance I can do?


(Dan Dan) #675

@CFLBob

Technique Update :thinking:

Hold breath on countdown at 20 then immediately at beep blow making ha sound for 4 to 5 seconds no more no less :grinning:

Restore/Clean by performing 5 dry runs let cool for 20 min :face_with_monocle:


(Central Florida Bob ) #676

Thanks for your update. After trying to swab it out with a Q-tip, we found what seems to work is to hold it with the edge that has the blow-in port facing down and tap it on a hand a half dozen times. Never did understand that, but it seemed repeatable.

Iā€™ll try your approach next time.


(David Miller Putnam) #677

BJ, thank you for your input from Mar of '17. I was very interested in your profile saying you were a recovering diabetic, good way to describe it. Do you think you have successfully cured yourself of diabetes thru diet and fasting? Thatā€™s where I amongā€¦trying to cure myself.


(Richard) #678

Thanks for the response. I was just trying to find out what the numbers really mean. Should my goal be to be anything above zero or should I be shooting for responding like I am drunk?
Rich


(The o-chem police are coming) #679

I have not read the entire thread. I am very curious if there is a direct correlation between the number on the breathalyzer vs blood BHB levels. As it is for me, I just use it as a unit-free analog scale. Meaning I donā€™t try to correlate the breathalyzer number to likely serum number. I use it to see how my activity, diet and how I feel correlate with some number that correlates to ketosis. Mine gives results in mg/dl of EtOH. Since acetone has a different weight to EtOH the gig is up right there. Also, I donā€™t know how sensitive the device is to acetone vs EtOH. So I assume the number gets bigger when I have more acetone in my breath and I assume I have more acetone in my breath when my ketone levels are higher. From there its up to me to determine what range works for me.

Questions is: What is the number range when I feel good, eat the food I like, wt lose at an acceptable rate, energy level and athletic performance good. So far so long as it read a number then Iā€™m content with how I feel. Minimum number on mine is 0.2mg/dl. It is also very handy to see in real time how hidden carbs in food knock you around.


(Richard) #680

This graph is the closest I have ever found. it came from somewhere deep in this thread.
Enjoy!!!
Merry Christmas


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #681

I wouldnā€™t worry about it. Acetone in the breath simply means that your liver is producing enough ketone bodies for the body to feel comfortable wasting some in your breath. I never measure, because I get this feeling in my mouth that is a pretty good indication that I am in ketosis.

And besides, as long as you are keeping carbohydrate low, your liver has to be making ketone bodies just to keep the brain and other organs fueled. Not only that, itā€™s more important to be fat-adapted than to be producing ketone bodies every last second of the day.


(Running from stupidity) #682

These things.


(Dawn Michelle) #683

I bought this one. It doesnā€™t even seem to try to read. Itā€™s always at zero. I give up. Amazon wonā€™t take it back. But it was cheap so thatā€™s okay. Now I have a breathalyzer, which might come in handy.

I just ordered a Ketonix. Fingers crossed that it works. I know there are mixed reviews. Iā€™ve gotta try. Testing my ketones daily keeps me honest. But my fingertips are starting to complain. In the long run I think the Ketonix will save money.


(Ross) #684

I bought the exact same one and I was so happy to see that it worked tooā€¦ untilā€¦ my wife who is also on Keto, blew and got the same reading I had (.08 ). It was possible but seemed unlikely as I was much more strict in my carb intake so I changed the mouthpiece and had my carb overloaded 11 year old blow and sure enough ā€¦ .08. I couldnā€™t put my trust in it so I purchased Keto-Mojo. Also, after about a month in Ketosis my urine strips started reading ā€œnoneā€ or ā€œtrace amountsā€ but my blood says Iā€™m constantly 1.0-3.7 mmol/l. If it is important to know, go with a blood test


(Ross) #685

I have found an article that said if you take your BAC reading and multiply it by 40 itā€™ll give you roughly what your blood ketone level is. The only issue is the accuracy of the Device youā€™re usingā€¦ mine gave ghost readings and everyone in my house, Keto or not blew a .08% BACā€¦


(Running from stupidity) #686

FWIW, on the rare occasion I use my cheapo eBay breathalyser, it seems to work fine (although sometimes it shows zero, and I know thatā€™s not right).

Given Iā€™m using it for interest only, it was well worth the $12.


(Running from stupidity) #687

I think thatā€™s crap, TBH - theyā€™re measuring fundamentally different things, so showing a definitive relationship is going to be impossible, IMHO.

But, you know, an article gave someone content, I guess :slight_smile:


(Ross) #688

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Breath_Acetone_Meters

This is the article ā€¦ it seems he put some work into his finding but for meā€¦ itā€™s guessing and Iā€™m not much into guessing and thatā€™s why I test my blood ketones when Iā€™m curious.