Test Breath Ketones without a Ketonix (using a cheap breathalyzer)

ketonix
acetone
breath

#446

I will try this method! I keep getting zeros on my AT6000 and am not sure if that is an accurate reading or if I’m just doing it wrong.


(German Ketonian) #447

I think it’s a matter of not pushing it (literally!). Blow very gently and be sure you have exhaled before the countdown reaches 0. Then, again, GENTLY (!can’t stress this enough!) blow until it shows an output. I have never blown a 0 since starting keto, give or take the first 3-5 days.


#448

I finally got a reading! It showed 0.51 mg/L and 1.03% BAC. Does the .5 mean I am in Ketosis or do I need to do a conversion calculation?


(Damon Chance) #449

Pretty much any positive reading on these I believe has been noted to be a positive correlation to Ketosis


#450

As long as you are not intoxicated. :):joy:


(Damon Chance) #451

True!

I don’t usually have issues with that but Mouthwash… i always forget to take my readings before brushing in the morning so I have to skip them.


(Mike Nightingale) #452

I have 3 cheap breathalysers, 2 are the same model and one is the AT6000. I think from my testing the main take away is that none are accurate!
As it happens the first one I had seems to be mostly useful - although, as I said, not necessarily accurate - Most of the time when I am expecting to be in ketosis it gives readings however there are some times when I don’t have any reasons to be out of ketosis that it reads 0.0. Because I had found it to be useful I purchased an identical model (And marked it so as not to get them confused .) However although I use the same breath the reading on the second one are much less useful, in that it seems to be much less sensitive.
I also have a friend who also purcahased the same model and due to his results, I suspect his is also similarly less sensitive than my original one.
I then purchased an AT6000 , hoping that it would be even better. Unfortunately it is also less sensitive. I will spare you all the charts I made comparing results :slight_smile:
The units tend to agree when exposed to acetone from a bottle - with a high reading. I also had similar results from Isopropyl alcohol.
My conclusion is, when these units are made the manufacturers concentrate on being “Accurate” on the “Legal limit” for driving, and these units are not calibrated to give accurate readings below that limit, it’s down to luck if any particular unit is accurate across a range of readings. I draw this conclusion, based, not only on my own trials, but also on reviewing the reports of others on the subject, many of which seem to have conflicting data when compared to similar models.
In regard to the AT6000 in particular, my unit does not allow a full exhale of breath through the tube, it times out before I’m halfway through breathing out!. So my method has been to breath out halfway before blowing the second half of my exhale through the tube.(Acetone behing heavier than air and therefore likely more concentrated at the end of a breath.)
I hope that helps :slight_smile:


#453

Breathing the bottom of the breath and gently seems to be the trick. If I blow too hard I get 0.0. I believe I have had false negatives due to this. However, this morning, having only had water since 10pm I got a BAC 0.11 or 0.55 mg/L.

I read a blog post yesterday in which the author said in his/her N=1 experience multiplying the BAC by 40 gave a rough approximation to the BOHB in the blood. This would mean a BAC of 0.01-0.08 would indicate nutritional ketosis.
Using this model, my 0.11 seems pretty good, right?


(Damon Chance) #454

Your breathing technique may be to blame here… You can’t do it like the ketonix and exhale 15-30 seconds after it tells you to breathe. I wait through the countdown timer and at about 10 i start exhaling so that by 0 i am nearly out of breath and the gently blow qhat little is left into the device. Neveer get 0 now. I primarily use the AT6000 but the same technique works on my Genwon with the orange backlight. The Genwon gives me reeadings about half as high as the other one and that’s pretty consistent.


(roxanna) #455

That’s how I do it too and get very consistent readings. I also had higher carbs the other day and the next morning my reading, which is usually .25-.30 was .16.


(Damon Chance) #456

According to this video the breath tests are a more immediate indicator of whether or not your body is using ketones (not just producing them).


(German Ketonian) #457

Yes, that has already been discussed. In a nutshell, BHB measures your current “storage” of ketones in your blood. Acetone measures how much is used when being active, for instance. And acetoacetate is the ketone body of “waste”, that is he ketone body excreted via urine.


(German Ketonian) #458

But all of them are completely different forms of ketones, so I more and more believe that there is no point in trying to correlate them. The point could be more that if you have low blood and urine ketones and high breath ketones indicate being efficient at using ketones for energy.


(Damon Chance) #459

Yeah that video clears it up that there is really no need to correlate them, you can use the results for different things if you are curious, but an either/or approach to blood or breath is fine. As there is no storage of Acetone in the lungs it will have less lag time when determining if a meal has caused you to stop using ketones. However, at least with these cheap devices, there may be a trade-off in precision vs. the blood meters.

For the convenience and cost I’m fine with this method, although my curiosity does sometimes tempt me to go the blood route too.


(German Ketonian) #460

Same here! Just got my blood ketone meter and it’s nice to see the most accurate number once in a while. Right now I am in testing mode and shoot for 2 measurements a day just because of my curiosity. But it will die down eventually, I am sure. Interestingly, correlations of the blood ketone meter and the acetone breathalizers are not that bad for me, so far (having only 15+ data points, though). Generally speaking, it does positively correlate with around .3 so far…


(Veronica Fall) #461

The ones the police use are more sophisticated.


#462

Looking at getting a cheap breathalyzer to test ketones thruout the day. Blood ketone strip test was 0.9 last night with a blood glucose of 91, for a 5.6 GKI. So I should register on the breathalyzer. Anyone try have the ketometer($92)? Saw one post about it but not any more?


#463

So I just used my LAST Nova Max ketone blood test strip this morning with the result of 0.6 and my AT6000 came in the mail just now. Tested my breath every which way that has been posted in this entire thread…0.0 is all I get, no matter what…Arg. I’m feeling frustrated! Anyone else have this happen?
I had less than 70mg protein yesterday, <20g carb and lots and lots of fat. After 15 hours fasted and only HWC in coffee this morning, some butter and bacon fat for “breakfast” I get only, ever 0.0 on this meter…


(German Ketonian) #464

You have to be fairly deep in ketosis before the AT6000 registers. If my ketones aren’t roughly about 1,5 mmol/L, chances are your breath contains a too low acetone concentration. But bear in mind that many factors influence this. I have had zero readings and very low blood ketone levels when I fasted for more than 18 hours. My body was becoming very efficient at using the ketones. I get my highest readings (around 5-6 mmol/L on the blood ketone meter), when I eat lots of dietary fat and my lowest readings (around 0.9), when I fast for prolonged periods of 24-36 hours.

Also, bear in mind that you could have high blood ketone readings and not spilling any acetone via your breath as both are not correlated. I venture to guess that there might even be a negative correlation: if blood ketone levels are high, your “energy storage” is filled and you’re probably not using the ketones at the moment of measuring those high numbers. Then, the breath meter wouldn’t show an impressive number, if showing anything at all. In the opposite case, if you’re using the ketones for energy, you should get stronger acetone concentrations in your breath, while the blood levels are low(er).

My own body seems to become more efficient at using ketones right now. I get continuously declining breath and urine ketone levels, but fairly consistent blood readings of around 2.0 to 3.5 mmol/L. I used to get values of around .75 mg/L on the AT6000, but now I barely touch the .6 mg/L mark. My taste and smell also adapts and I get less and less “nail polish remover” flavour in my mouth/nose. Thus, I believe my body is adapting to keto even after being on strict keto (<70 grams of protein, <15 grams of net carbs) for almost 4 months. Volek and Phinney speculate about month-to-year long adaptation periods, which I definitely think is the case with me.


#465

Thank you so much for your thoughts on this, it was mind-boggling to me. I Had thought that for certain I would see a reading of something above 0.0 and with all of the stressors in my life, this just made me extra cranky :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: