Test Breath Ketones without a Ketonix (using a cheap breathalyzer)

[m3n1n4]

Thanks a lot for your comprehensive reply, Todd. Makes absolute sense. Btw, the one I have is the AT6000 (same as the one mentioned at the beginning of the thread).

[collaroygal]

After using my original Greenwon very successfully, I bought another since I keep reading the sensors give out after 6 months and I’ve had mine that long now. New one has the orange backlit display but otherwise is the same Greenwon device. Except the new one very rarely shows anything but .00 readings. If I use alcohol and blow within 20 mins. it shows a number but if I am trying to measure ketones it just doesn’t give a good reading. The old one, still works a treat. I just tried them both, got a good reading from the old one and .00 from the new one. I attribute this to lack of QA.

I’m just back from a vacation that proved to me I am a fat burner now. Old Greenwon shows me in nutritional ketosis ranges all the time now. I came back two lbs. lighter than when I left on vacation, and I usually put on a couple of water weight lbs. due to flying alone.

I’m thinking of getting the AT6000, because the sensors do wear out. And it would be interesting to try a different model.

[PresenceGuy]

I have both the Greenwon with the orange display and the AT6000.

The Greenwon only shows 0’s, so far the AT6000 has varied from 0.02 (most days) to 0.04 once while I was in a IF.

I started a little over a month ago so still have a ways to go to really get into ketosis.

[Jimbo]

My greenwon is the same way. My AT6000 will read .12 and the greenwon will read between 0 and .02. I also have a ketonix and the AT6000 tracks well with that. The greenwon does not.

[devhammer]

The more I use the Greenwon, the more I’m convinced that it’s a trailing measurement, and does not represent the current state of things.

I’ve done two 60-hour fasts in the last two weeks (Thursday evening to Sunday morning), and in both cases I found that the readings on my Greenwon didn’t start to increase significantly until well into the fast, and held at a high level for 2-3 days after breaking the fast, then gradually came down. I was up to around 0.08 on Monday (24 hours after breaking the fast), and stayed there for most of the day, and gradually started declining until I am now around 0.04. Still a perfectly good reading, if the correlations that have been posted here are even close to accurate.

This is using the technique of starting to blow before the warm-up countdown is complete, such that I’ve completely exhaled before the blow countdown is done, on the theory that the last part of the breath is likely to have the most acetone. Seems to work for me, and the fact that it tracks so closely with my fast/feast cycle gives me confidence that it is at least a reasonable best-guess measurement, even if it’s a trailing indicator.

[PresenceGuy]

I’ll have to try starting the measurement while the countdown timer is going.

[Frank_C]

I’m new here, but have read almost every post in this thread, and I’m wondering what the latest conclusions are about what is the most accurate (against cost) way to measure where one is in their ketogenic journey? Which units show the most accuracy amongst the breathalyzers, and where is the best place to get a “deal”?

Thanks ahead of time for any and all help!!

[CFLBob]

Joy! My toy just got here (AT6000). Initial test was .05, then I tried blowing toward the bottom of my lungs (not holding my breath and starting from full, but more like starting from after a normal exhalation). Then it went up .07%. Pressing the button said .073, so it gives another significant digit like Jennifer72 said. It won’t allow six seconds at that point. After only one or two seconds, it starts beeping and flashing that I’m drunk.

I don’t have any blood test strips and my urine test strips never show more than the second shade of pink (moderate?), so I don’t have a “known accurate” thing to compare to.

[Paolo_Di_Donato]

Hi all!

A colleague of mine and I are doing an in-depth survey of the ketogenic community on how breath, blood and urine is measured involving more detailed questions than what has been talked about. We are looking for participants to help give us 10 minutes of your time on Skype or phone (no more). We are looking at daily habits, testing routines, food intake and common fail points.

This research may lead into development of a new product or research for analysis in ketosis.

If you are interested please let me know here and I will contact or direct message me,

Thanks in advance and your insights are greatly appreciated,

Paolo

[Klink77]

I just received my AT6000 today. I’ve been on Keto for about 2 months now. My tests have been consistently showing either .11 or .12% BAC. I gave the device to two other people not on keto and sober who consistently tested 0%. I’m grateful to have some positive results like that, seeing urine strips seem to only be accurate in the earlier stages of ketosis apparently.

Now, my concern with these results is what many have spoken about here; being stopped by police. From what I’ve read, the consensus is the higher quality breathalyzers police use will be able to distinguish between alcohol and acetone. The thing that bothers me is what if it doesn’t for some reason? If I had to get additional urine and blood tests to prove my innocence, I would have my license suspended and not be able to work. Driving is integral to my job. Should I be worried? I’m really starting to be.

[roxanne]

I think mine has gone wonky. I bought it on vacation to France, where I stayed mostly keto but I did have th odd croissant and other non keto foods. I was curious to see what these indulgences would to my readings, which were typically between 0.03 to 0.05 at home, and never above 0.06. I was expecting lower readings on vacation and the first time or two, I did get 0.01 or 0.02. The day after having a thin crust pizza, I was surprised to see 0.14, setting off the alarms. Same thing the next day. After that, I stopped testing.

After returning home last week and 100% back to keto, I tried again and was back to my normal 0.03, but this morning once again I blew 0.14. Tried again a few minutes later and it was zero. I don’t get it!

[collaroygal]

I went looking for something about this that would apply on the national level.
These are the approved devices, might be worth paying a bit more to have one of them if your job depends on it.

2012-14582.pdf

[Chris_W]

The thing that bothers me is what if it doesn’t for some reason?

I believe you can ask for a blood test if you get stopped, which would clear you.

[Zimon]

Hello everyone,

I’ve been following this thread carefully and am really intrigued by what’s been going on here. I am 31 year old, German male, and on a ketogenic diet for roughly 1 1/2 months. Until a week ago, I have only tracked my urine (that is spilled) ketones. They consistently show low, medium or high values (to this date!). I am probably someone who spills ketones in their urine even after being keto-adapted (which I think I definitely am at this point). I work out regularly (cardio 3-4 times a week) and have been eating less that 20g total carbs for a month. I vary my diet quite a lot, although I keep my carbs below 20g every single day and rarely, if ever, go beyond 60-70 grams of protein. My usual fat intake is between 130-200 grams. So I am practicing a classic keto diet very consistently and track my macros accurately.

I bought the AT6000 a week ago and have started to monitor my breath. During the very first attempt, I blew after exhaling completely and it showed a 0.00 (in hindsight, I conclude that was to calibrate the sensor or something). Afterwards, it has consistently shown values around 0.10 (lowest I’ve ever got) to 0.12. Interestingly, this seems to be rather uncorrelated to whether or not I am eating or have eaten. I am on a 24h fast so far and just found the same BAC (0.11) as yesterday morning and evening. The correlation with my urine ketones is loose as well. For those who are interested, I put in my values in an Excel spreadsheet.

Some tentative conclusions for me so far:

• For the AT6000: exhale completely, then VERY(!) gently blow when the device is ready. For me, it takes 2 seconds max until the device has enough air the analyze my breath. For my girlfriend, who is not keto, I have found that she needs to blow for 5-10 seconds until the AT6000 analyzes her breath. She always comes up with 0.00. So it definitely works.

• One marker to check, if you blow in too hard, is whether your breath condensates the display. This was the case for me the very first time I used it and it gave me the 0.00 BAC.

• The AT6000 shows VERY consistent levels of breath acetone levels, provided you use the same breathing and blowing
  technique every time. In fact, I have never been out of the 0.10-0.12 BAC range for the time I have used it

• I seem to be pretty heavily in ketosis, because of the lacking correlation between breath acetone levels and when/if I have eaten. Given my varied diet (sometimes going fully vegetarian or even vegan some days), this is the only conclusion I can draw, because the device definitely works.

• There is no correlation (so far) between acetone and acetoacetate levels for me. The former is very steady and constant, whereas the latter is all over the place and stronger hinges on water intake and other factors.

• I think the lacking correlation makes sense to some degree: the acetone measures whether the body uses ketones, whereas the acetoacetate is more an indicator for ketone excretion. I conclude that I am fully keto-adapted, because the “ketone usage” indicator is so invariant

I would be curious what you think of my findings/conclusions so far. If interested, I will keep on sharing my data.

Best

Simon

[Frank_C]

@Zimon thanks for this… any and all feedback helps ALL of us. I’m not 100% sold on breath (or urine) as a totally consistent or accurate way to measure one’s ketogenic state, so I’m searching for a cheap way to do blood analysis. I’ve found 2, nether of which is presently available in the USA. although the Keto-Mojo is now taking pre orders, and uses cheap ($1 ea.) strips for ketones, but also does glucose (very cheaply) on as separate strip. My theory is that. by measuring and comparing ketones (BHP?) and glucose, you have an indisputable to tell exactly where you are on this path.

The other unit I found (from GB, the Keya Smart) uses very cheap 1 strip to test both, but is awaiting FDA approval before it can sell here in USA. II ordered the Keto-Mojo, but it is not scheduled to ship until Oct. 9… NOTE: this is NOT an endorsement of either of these companies… these could both be scams as far as I can tell, but I’m taking a chance because it fits the criteria I’m searching for, and, in the big scheme of things, is worth the gamble (to me)!

I will keep you posted as this unfolds…

[Zimon]

Hi Frank!

Sure, the breath method is not 100% accurate (even with the Ketonix), as isn’t urine. As far as precision, I think there is no way around blood measures. Yet, I think it really depends what you want. As a diabetic person, you might want to have a blood test, because it can be combined with blood sugar control and you need the extra accuracy for you health. I think the breath method (and for some people like me apparently, even urine) can be used to check whether or not I am in or out of ketosis. The neat thing about breath is that the reading is definitely more scalable and interpretable than the urine, because it is less susceptible to contextual factors. I am not saying that breath is really THE way to go but, so far seems to be the best compromise.

And then there is another point: all of the indicators measure something different so it goes back to what you want. If you want to measure your ketone bodies most comprehensively, blood may be the way to go. Yet, it doesn’t tell you much about how much your body actually uses them. From what I’ve read the differences are that blood simply tells you how many ketones your body has generated and not how well it has adapted to using them. Urine and breath on the other hand, demonstrate how much you body uses your ketones. Urine tells your how much is excreted, breath how much is used for energy. The thing about urine, again, is that it is not accurate for some people who are keto-adapted and is much more affected by activity, water intake etc.

[brownfat]

Yes, I think you’ve got it well figured out and you are deep in ketosis.

Don’t be disappointed though if you keep eating the same and the reading comes down some. According to Phinney and Volek early in the process of becoming fat adapted muscles switch from glucose to ketones as their primary fuel but then transition to using more fatty acids directly reducing total demand for ketones and sparing them for the brain.

[Zimon]

Fascinating, thanks for this piece of information! I didn’t know that.

I think my body adapts really well to ketosis and responds immediately. But I have to state that I am a young person and have been a healthy to begin with. Also, I am not doing this to lose weight, so I am in the normal BMI range (around 20 I believe). Thus, I think I do not have that many issue to adapt. I’ve read experiences of people struggling with their weight for decades. I believe those have more trouble when making the transition and their bodies first need to decrease inflammation and heal. That’s why it can take a significant amount of time. My mission on the other hand is just simply to improve my life, which seems to be working. And I am grateful for it!

I just blew a 0.10, approx. 30 Minutes after dinner (a rather light salad with feta and much olive oil). 2 hours later, I was back to 0.11. My macros today were 16 grams of total carbs, 69 grams of protein, 157 grams of fat.

[brownfat]

If you are healthy there may not be much if any advantage to being deep in ketosis versus moderately in ketosis. It might be better or it might vary person to person, it’s just there isn’t much data. Most of the research has been on people with health issues such as epilepsy or diabetes.

But now you have an easy way to track your level of ketosis and you can experiment with your diet and things like fasting while also tracking how you feel.

[Zimon]

Yes, I guess you’re right! I will just keto on and slowly integrate other food like resistant starches and carrots back into my diet. Although I have to say, the strict keto diet feels fantastic for me. I didn’t get the keto flu and also have no cravings to eat carbs at all. This really doesn’t feel like a diet, but simply the right way to eat for me. Food is very important to me and if a had the feeling of being deprived or missing out, I would have curbed it already…