Test Breath Ketones without a Ketonix (using a cheap breathalyzer)

ketonix
acetone
breath
#49

Awesome. Well, since they’re so cheap, why not buy a breathalyzer and do some experimenting with us here? It’s only a $5 - $15 outlay… and it’s especially useful coming from you because you would own both devices.

#50

I was thinking of doing so, I just don’t have time yet and don’t know where my ketonix is. Might be able to find it this weekend sometime though.

Of course, the better tests would come from those that can compare against blood ketone meters, as that’s really what we are looking for (correlations between breath levels and blood levels). I don’t have one of those, unfortunately (that’s even more expensive in the long run, which was why I went with the ketonix to begin with).

#51

Ideally we’d have all 3 in order to establish actual data and confirm reliability. However, 2 meters might be good enough to establish a comparative reliability. I’d be excited to hear your comparative results if you do it.

(Chris W) #52

The new Ketonix USB (2017) reports reports Acetone in PPM when linked to a computer. The flashing lights aspect is primarily designed for for portable use when you do not have access to a computer. I find the Ketonix to be quite useful, but it also requires a bit of technique for consistency. The technique needed would be difficult for my wife as she is prone to asthma attacks and I worry that exhaling that much beyond a normal exhale would trigger an attack for her

At Low-Carb Breckenridge, there was another ketosis meter (LEVL) being demonstrated which did not require as much of a special technique and it was very nicely packaged, but it was quite a bit more expensive than the Ketonix and requires that the moderately expensive sensor pack be replaced periodically. :expressionless:

Michel, the inventor of Ketonix presented at Low-Carb Breckenridge and specifically discussed blood vs. breath ketones. In a nutshell, he showed that the blood and breath meters are measuring at different points in the metabolic process and that there would be times that they would not correlate to each other. What I took away from the presentation was that acetone in the breath is a more direct indicator that you are actively burning fat. Hopefully his presentation will be posted soon on the Low-Carb Down Under Youtube channel.

#53

thanks @cwstnsko ! That’s all good to know.

That could just be a conversion from mg/L to PPM, though it does sound promising. What would be good to know is the precision units (or intervals).

[update: PPM and mg/L are identical, so no conversion required. My breathalyzer also reports mg/L so it’s not a point of difference between a breathalyzer and a ketonix. I’d be surprised if even the new ketonix has a higher precision than a standard breathalyzer, but I wait to be corrected.]

I look forward to seeing his presentation. I don’t understand how acetone in the breath (a waste product and also the breakdown product of the more desirable BHB ketone bodies) would more accurately indicate fat burning than directly measuring BHB ketone bodies in the blood (a living fuel situation). Do you remember enough to explain?

(Chris W) #54

It would seem odd that there would be no conversion required between the inexpensive breathalyzer (mg/l) and the Ketonix in PPM since the Ketonix Charts from the owners manual consider beneficial nutritional ketosis to start around 4 ppm, and the breathalyzers seem to read in the hundredths (0.05) of a mg/L. unless I’m interpreting what I see above incorrectly.

A link to Michel’s video from the 2016 Lo-Carb Vail is Here
It is not as specific in regard to the differences as the 2017 presentation, but he does get into some of the differences from about 9:30 to about 13:00 in the video.
What I recall from his 2017 presentation was that the blood test does reflect the availability of the ketones for fuel, but not whether they are being USED for fuel at the moment. Some of the conditions I recall him mentioning where

  1. blood ketones available, but not being used for fuel (perhaps because of the presence of glucose,) result: blood +, breath -
  2. blood ketones available and some being used for fuel. result: blood +, breath +
  3. blood ketones unavailable because they are ALL being used for fuel. blood -, breath +
Low ketone levels in the evening with IF
#55

https://www.google.com.au/search?sclient=psy-ab&q=converting%20ppm%20to%20mg%2FL&=&=&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1

To convert parts per million to milligrams per liter, use the conversion factor of 1 ppm = 1 mg/L. This means that 1 part per million is equal to 1 milligram per liter.

#56

Thanks for the explanation and the link. I’ve heard that one. I’ll revisit.

(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #57

I guess I should have read the manual first for my breathalyzer…Found the following line in the back of the manual:

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#58

It’s a good thing. That’s what we want from a breathalyser.

(gooeykablooey) #59

@cwstnsko the cheapo breathalyzer may be perfect for your wife then, mine that I paid $2.65 USD for doesn’t require I blow the full 10 seconds. If I’m in ketosis deeply it let’s me know within about 2 seconds with a beep and shows my read out. It continues to run the full 10 seconds but I’ve never gotten a higher reading by continuing to blow the rest of the 10 seconds.

(roxanna) #60

So I got mine in and it’s reading as 0. I eat zero carb so less than 5 total carbs a day. I wonder if it’s because of my protein? I usually take in about 130 protein. I do believe I am in ketosis based on other signals.

(Chris W) #61

I recently went ZC for 3 weeks with increased protein. According to my Ketonix, I was only in ketosis part of the time with bigger protein meals stopping ketosis for several hours. I would check with the meter just before you eat the meal that breaks your fast for the day and see if it shows anything. It is possible that you got a meter than DOES properly differentiate between acetone and alcohol.

(roxanna) #62

I got the same one that the person who started this thread bought! Yes I was wondering about the timing. I tested when I got it at 4pm (and had eaten at noon). I tested this morning at 6:30am (after no food since 6pm the night before). I’ve always eaten higher protein because I work out a lot but have been adjusting my workout schedule, so maybe I need to look at reducing the protein to see? I still have the breath/metallic mouth, smelly pee, lack of hungry/cravings, better sleep, ability to fast, etc. etc. It’s so interesting!

#63

Test it after drinking alcohol. You may have a dud.

The only reliability issue I’ve had with mine is I need to wait a while before retesting (seems the sensor isn’t clear so it calibrates incorrectly. perhaps shaking it would fix for me).

(Lillian Jane Jay Neal) #64

I ordered a Ketonix weeks ago, paid for the 5 day shipping…never heard a single thing out of them. I Facebook messaged, called (no answer), left a voice mail several times, and finally got a response via email. The response was that the Ketonix were held up in Pilidelphia with the immigration inspection. No telling when I will get it. I might just cancel my order and order the cheap one. If I knew how to read it, it would help.

(Lillian Jane Jay Neal) #65

Which brand do you have?

(gooeykablooey) #66

It’s so cheap it didn’t even have a brand! Came in a plastic bag with the extra tips and instructions (straight from factory in China) I found it by searching breathalyzer in ebay then setting the filters to price “low to high” and “buy it now” buying option. It looks like this (there are hundreds of listing for it)

20170405_174953.jpg2322×4128 2.43 MB

This little chain at the bottom is a keychain

#67

Here’s the one I bought:

I’m not sure about the one @Lolo bought as the conversion from g/l to %BAC appears to be incorrect (including the wrong ratio g/l, and wrong capitalisation of liters). It should read mg/L. 0.1 mg/L is .02 %BAC according to the normal conversion. In any case it’s measuring something other than zero so still fit for purpose. Perhaps I’m missing something.

#68

I’ve got the same problem. They were knowingly taking orders (and money) for products they didn’t have. I’m at a month now and probably canceling. Something seems fishy about their story, they’re registered “medical devices” which means there is all types of paperwork and pre-approval stuff done on the back end to get them into the country. Minus a random cargo search something is wrong with their whole story. Only problem I see with using a cheap breathalyzer is their not calibrated the same as a ketonix would be. I’d love to see the results of somebody with both though.