Test Breath Ketones without a Ketonix (using a cheap breathalyzer)

ketonix
acetone
breath
#113

My AT6000 arrived today and I am getting consistent readings of 0.09-0.12 BAC
My first couple of attempts I got a zero reading, and the issue for those registering 0.00 BAC would most likely be the blowing technique.
What i would suggest for those not getting a score (and are expecting a positive reading because they are in ketosis) is to:

  1. do not blow too hard, a very gentle blow is sufficient, and
  2. do not take a deep breath before you blow, instead blow when your lungs are almost empty
    when I do the above I get a reading EVERY time
(Roxanne) #114

Thanks for the tips. I finally broke down and ordered one on eBay - estimated one month delivery time!

(paul ) #115

so i am going to order mine today but what is a good reading, anything or .05 and up?

(G. Andrew Duthie) #116

Wish I knew. I rarely see lower than 0.03, but the highest I’ve seen is 0.06, and that only once.

It seems clear there’s a difference between keto and non-keto, though, as my wife, who is not keto, got a 0.00 reading.

I should have my older son try it in the morning, as I’ve heard (on the most recent 2KD podcast with Tom Naughton) that kids shift into and out of keto readily, and that kids who aren’t eating a lot of sugar probably end up in ketosis overnight most nights. Given my son’s build, that wouldn’t surprise me.

(paul ) #117

Thanks Dev. Good to know i have been in ketosis for 5 months and lost good weight (50), but now its coming off alittle slower and the sticks seem to be getting lighter also> I chaulk this up to being in Ketosis so long. I am still less then 10carbs a day, every day and never have a cheat day. I bought a blood meter but you need a morgtage to buy the sticks so I wanted to try the breathalyzer.

(Todd Allen) #118

Here’s a little chart I made to compare the results of my cheap acetone reading breathalyzer to a ketonix. I went point by point on the breathalyzer for the range I’ve experienced and added in the yellow and red warning transitions for reference.

0.00 BAC% = 0.00 ppm = ketonix 0 : blue
0.01 BAC% = 0.26 ppm = ketonix 28 : blue
0.02 BAC% = 0.52 ppm = ketonix 40 : blue just shy of green
0.03 BAC% = 0.78 ppm = ketonix 47 : marginally green
0.04 BAC% = 1.04 ppm = ketonix 50 : green
0.05 BAC% = 1.30 ppm = ketonix 53 : green
0.06 BAC% = 1.56 ppm = ketonix 56 : green
0.07 BAC% = 1.82 ppm = ketonix 58 : green
0.08 BAC% = 2.08 ppm = ketonix 60 : green

0.15 BAC% = 3.90 ppm = ketonix 70 : yellow
0.42 BAC% =11.10 ppm = ketonix 85 : red

For about a month I’ve been alternating roughly a week of eating to satiety where I average ~2000 kCal/day with ~75 g protein / day with a week of pseudo fasting where I aim to average ~700 kCal/day and restrict protein below 25 g / day.

I’m pleased when I’m in the BAC% range 0.03 to 0.05 which is where I desire to be most of the time with brief drops to 0.02 being ok and pleased with the spikes above 0.05 though I don’t try to force them.

When eating to satiety I’ll blow 0.03 when I mostly stick to leafy greens for carbs (<20 g net), 0.02 if I’m lenient (exceed 30 g net carbs) and drop to 0.01 if I really over indulge (> 40 g net).

During my pseudo fasts the highest I’ve hit was 0.08 and the lowest has been 0.03 going quite high carb (~50 g net). Restricting total calories and especially protein for a few days makes it easy to maintain ketone levels and allows indulgences like green salads topped with cucumber, peppers, tomatoes, red onion.

Drops in my BAC% tend not to occur until 2 to 3 hours after a meal and typically take 6 to 12 hours per 0.01 of rebound. Exercise or exertion can cause a quick drop followed by an accelerated rebound.

Greenwon Tester
#119

Wow, thanks for all this. It’s really helpful as far as what those numbers might actually mean.

(Ben) #120

Thanks @brownfat that’s useful to know. It gives a reference point for these breathalyzer readings.

I’ve been 0.04 mostly since I got mine. Today I’ve been up to 0.07.

My own n=1 with the gadget was to see how a couple of pints of beer affect my ketosis. And the following day my readings drop to 0.02, which to me is acceptable. Part of the reason for looking into this is that I have several friends that I think would really benefit from going keto. And I know I’d have no chance of persuading them if I cut out beer entirely - they would regard that as a sacrifice too far, I’m sure.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #121

Fantastic info. Thanks for posting this.

(Roxanne) #122

This is great, Todd, now I’m eager to get mine :slight_smile: Did you consistently get the same correlation between the BAC and your Ketonix? For example, did 0.05 BAC% consistently correspond to about 56 on your ketonix?

(Todd Allen) #123

Roxanne, I apologize for not making it clear previously, but I don’t have a ketonix. I looked up how the ketonix and the breathalyzer each generate their displayed values and calculated the equivalences. I added my personal results with respect to diet as it “feels” right to me. I’ve also done blood glucose and infrequent blood ketone testing and used ketone pee strips when starting keto. Although there isn’t a tight correspondence between them, they have each given me a similar feel for what I can eat at any given time for my goal to be mostly in moderate ketosis.

My expectation is because a ketonix can generate a reading from 0-100 with a non linear scale that gives excellent coverage at the low end of the range it is a better tool for someone new to keto struggling to get into ketosis. If one is stuck in the blue zone feedback from 0 to 40 is going to give a better sense of where one stands and their progress than the 3 scores 0.00, 0.01 or 0.02. In the mid to higher ranges the difference in reported precision narrows. After one has been at keto a while the cheap breathalyzer is sufficient to guide one in achieving a targeted degree of ketosis.

(Roxanne) #124

Thanks for the explanation, Todd. I was confusing you with someone else who had both devices and was planning to compare the results :). I’m glad you are finding it to be a useful tool.

(Gale Dacalio) #125

I tried my ketonix after drinking alcohol and it registered red. It tells you in the instructions not to do it after consuming alcohol. Which is high. It only read orange when I was 5.5 by blood.

(Gale Dacalio) #126

Nice work. Thanks. I have an old ketonix, a blood ketone monitor, and am considering getting this and doing my own little n=1 experiment.

#127

Here are the results of someone who has actually tested bac% versus ketonix (as opposed to brownfats theoretical conversion). Seems to give different conversions.

http://www.engineeringmyself.com/2016/11/using-cheap-breatalizer-to-measure.html

Reading the breathalyzer
Greenwon Tester
#128

The chart below may also be useful for looking at how breath acetone correlates with blood ketones.

@brownfat - this chart has acetone in PPM’s on the right hand scale. You may be able to add to your conversion table to include the expected equivalent BHB reading.

Greenwon Tester
(Todd Allen) #129

If a BAC% of zero (the lowest possible) generates a Ketonix score > 50 (well into ketosis) how would they ever know when they weren’t in ketosis?

#130

I would say that single point at 0% bac is a faulty reading / outlier. The only credible observations appear to be 0.01% to 0.06% bac equiv to ketonix of 60-85 based on the observations. Outside those ranges, and 0.00% to 0.01% bac in particular, i suspect the relationship is very sensitive, and would need more emperical data to figure out the tipping point into ketosis. My breathalyser only has 2 decimal places, so readings of 0.00% and 0.01% i assume are no ketosis or low ketosis levels. My readings currently are 0.07% to 0.16% (increasing morning through to evening), off the scale of that chart at the other extreme.

(Todd Allen) #131

Their point at zero Y is at 55 on X. And their regression line intersects the X axis at roughly 53. So it isn’t much of an outlier and it is closer to the line then the majority of their other data points.

You assume BAC% 0.01 means low ketosis but on this graph it is ~60 a score quite high.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #132

60 hours fasted as of this morning, and I was reading 0.07, highest yet.

Broke my fast with bacon, sausage, and eggs. Followed by some Greek yogurt.

Interestingly, several hours later I’m still reading 0.07.