Taboo Fruit debacle (debacle #2 for those playing at home)

(Zu) #1

Hello,

So Im off the back of a 14 day fast (7 dry- 7 water) I was determined to break it on fat this time as many of my fasts I break on fruit carbs and end up annoyed and wanting to go into another fast out of frustration with my carby-ness… I digress…

This time I broke on mainly fat, and am happily on my 13th day of re-feeding on a lovely high fat diet…
I was told by my partner (who used to do a HFLC WOE for years) that eventually I will ricochet and need some fruit carbs - while in the mean time I am loosing out on precious antioxidants that many fruits and high carb veggies may offer (He is my biggest support and supports me through all my crazy fasting/WOE regimes over the years which has been a GOD-sent)

I digress yet again… that I have two pineapples, 2 sinfully sweet custard apples, half a pawpaw (papaya) and a full juvenile coconut full of high carb water sitting in my fridge staring at me… day in day out, calling me.

They are my absolute favourite fruits that hubs bought me to break my fast on… What will be their fate? I also have freezer draws full of mixed berries which I know are more keto friendly - but how shall I go about utilising this awfully nastily delicious sweet fruit so I can not look back and KETO on and fat it out… Should I just hide them in the freezer with the berries that I still dont know how will fit in my keto life.

They are haunting me. I have tried having a tiny baby slice of each one in the morning to chip away at it slowly slowly - but this leaves me no room for the incidental carbs that happen to be in things like an avocado or yoghurt dip, or nuts… or my greens.

And… for that matter? am I dipping out on valuable antioxidants coming out of a longer fast?, which only 20 days prior was another 7 day dry fast… (with a few other longer ones not that far before either…)

Does anyone know? Obviously on my next list I shall not request such things… but these guys are here already.

#2

I think antioxidant has too much importance placed on it, especially from a marketing point of view, it’s something that can be easily marketed. You can get it from eating vegetables, herbs and sprouts, it is not necessary to eat lots of fruits, which will raise your blood sugar and too much will ferment longer in your body. (For that reason, some recommend to eat fruits alone on an empty stomach and not with a big meal.)

In the book Fat for Fuel, Dr.Mercola talks about why too much antioxidant isn’t actually a good thing as it “indiscriminately lower the important biological signaling function of reactive oxygen species”. Also antioxidant aid the survival of cancer cell (suggested by James Watson). The idea is to reduce free radical instead, and this is through the ketogenic diet.

He also talks about the the idea that it’s not healthy to be permanently on keto which I agree with. You want to step out and eat a bit more healthy carb, such as on days you’re doing more activities and work out.

Some people here are against it all, and that’s fine, but when I’m at a healthy weight and with a good fasting blood sugar, I don’t see the problem with having some healthy carbs periodically. Go for lower glycemic fruits that have more fiber, like wild blueberries, grapefruit and maybe sweet potatoes. As for coconut, if you open up your own, eat the meat too, or drink the water while you exercise. I honestly don’t think there is anything wrong with having a fruit once a while, but you have to be careful as it can pull you right into being a fruit binger if not careful.

If you look at the Ayurveda medicine perspective, they eat foods by season, and fruit isn’t something that should be available to you all years round.

(Zu) #3

Yes agreed

hmm yes, interesting point. I am blood type AB and we are already pretty numb with a lot of important biological cues… Dr Mercola is pretty Rad

I do favour this view… I think like a good long stretch of keto, a short healthy LOW carb cycle, then back into keto should be okay. its about making sure your staying insulin sensitive and not stuffing up that signal in your body.

Yes they favour the fruit fast as a cure-all… They always say “fast the patient on fruit for XYZ days, and then have a chapati”… yada yada… some good stuff but as far as I know they still suffer from gout and T2D, and obesity.

I know that the fruit isnt BAD per say… its the proportions… even having like 50g pawpaw and 50g pineapple on my eating days is throwing me off on my carbs…

I have done a 3 week pineapple fast many times and It actually helped my blood sugar and I looked/felt amazing - plus it cleaned my liver and shrunk an ovarian cyst… So I know its good stuff… its just trying to incorperate it into my life

For the coconut water, I put it in a cup, dilute 50/50 with water, put the jelly flesh in with extra coconut butter and coconut oil, put some pineapple and pina colada it… but thats not too keto… unless I zero carb it the rest of the day…

Maybe I should do that until my fruit stockpile is depleted? Or have a bit, then FAT my head off and fast a day or so?

HMMM anyone?

(bulkbiker) #4

Bin them… they won’t help your condition and are obviously not good for your mind… stressing about them is also not good.
otherwise get your partner to eat them and quickly! If you told your partner you were breaking your fast on fat and they still went and brought the fruit and told you

Thats not being especially supportive now is it?

(Duncan Kerridge) #5

Exorcise them by putting them in the bin / giving them away. You’ll be doing yourself a favour.

(Zu) #6

Thats terribly wasteful… I would rather puree and portion them into ice-cube trays for a rainy day or guest…

??

that was a kind thing in case I changed my mind and wanted them as they knew they were my faves… to me thats extra double thoughtful

I am quite offended by that, actually. Please refrain from such judgment and keep those comments to yourself kindly. They are not helpful nor positive, nor warranted, nor based on anything but your own presumptions. I will not tolerate anyone saying those things about my partner, period. That was what they have seen with many others, that after long periods one will have a tendency to fall of the wagon at some point and when doing so a piece of fruit - as opposed to a block of chocolate or a huge carb laden pastry is the better way to go.

(Zu) #7

Probably might end up happening… or preserving them in some other way for some other purpose or person. food wastage is awful…

(John) #8

(Duncan Kerridge) #9

It’s not like these things grow on trees after all. Oh :wink:

(John) #10

Overreact much? I got the same thing from reading your message.

(Doug) #11

Hi Zu. :slightly_smiling_face: For anti-oxidants, you can get a boatload of them from leafy green vegetables like spinach or other above-ground veggies. Your existing fruit, well, I might just chow down and thus be rid of it today - not saying you should do that, though.

(Zu) #12

Yes, good advice, regarding leafy greens.

(Zu) #13

Actually, no… Its not overreacting… what person with any integrity allows their loved one to be put down founded on baseless facts? DEERRR my post clearly stated that they were extremely supportive _ and being the person involved and recipient of support I THINK I WOULD know!
But people like to find fault and be negative and tear one another down - sometimes to make them feel better about themselves or for other maladaptive reasons.

The conversation was a frank and honest one from someone with experience- that eventually people DO fall off the wagon and they eat carbs - so better be an antioxidant fruit rather than something else… And no one is going to know what your body needs but you.

Also I imagine from my partners point of view (as he is the one who does all groceries and shopping - I have never done it) that its important I have CHOICE and freedom to CHOOSE to go keto, and not feel like I have no choice, simply because he only bought non-carbs and feel trapt in keto, as apposed to wilfully choosing.

I find it ludicrously bizarre that I would have to defend that and that people would focus on that rather than the problem at hand… Grossly inaccurate assumptions were made, and I find that offensive and most certainly NOT IT ITS PLACE… maybe its common for many of you to put others spouses down and think nothing of it, but I find that to be unhealthy and negative behaviour that isn’t warranted…I would be quite embarrassed to say anything to that effect AS ITS NOT MY PLACE and quite frankly none of my business to make such comments, but I suppose some people find different things socially acceptable. What person would be passive to such comments, except someone who really has no respect or loyalty?

(bulkbiker) #14

As indeed was my comment… I’m sorry that you have been so offended.
My partner polices my diet (sometimes more than I do myself) and I find that very supportive.

(Zu) #15

Fruit debacle solved. Some frozen, some given away, and the rest apportioned into small low carb lots for days when I fast and eat exclusively fat, or a particularly low carb day.

Thank you kindly for those who contributed with kind, positive input! :+1::ok_hand:

(Mike W.) #16

Aside from a few occasional berries, fruit is a “no” on Keto. Fruit by definition is a bag of seeds surrounded by a sack of sugar water. Your partner buying these for you and taunting you with them day in and day out is what should be offending you. It’s like a person buying an alcoholic a couple shots of something to keep around “just in case”.
I agree with the others. Give them away and fill that fridge with fat and some greens.
Don’t construe support with enabling…

(Zu) #17

Taunting me? in less than a year I have fast TWO lots of 30 days on nothing but water, another week dry with not even water, and another fortnight half water half nothing, and the rest of that year has been nothing but intermittent fasting or one meal a day, or a melon cleans or pineapple fast, or shorter 3-4 day fasts…! EXCUSE the dear fellow for wanting a wide range of nutrients for his spouse and to gather whatever vitamins and minerals I may be down on! ITS NOTHING LIKE AN ALCOHOLIC BEING BOUGHT ALCOHOL! … Im far from overweight - in fact by the end of one of my fasts I really should have been hospitalised and tube fed… BUT YET AGAIN… people think its their place and they know better my circumstances than my own self… so I really don’t think in the scheme of things a few pieces of fruit after a fast could even compare.
Yes I DO know the power of some fruits! they have shrunk large CYSTS and cleaned out my liver amazingly… It has its place!!! I SINCERELY WISH SOME PEOPLE WOULD KNOW THERES!!! WHICH IS NOT FOR YOU TO COMMENT ON THINGS WHICH YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT!!!.. its not for you to tell me what you think my partner is doing you, or anyone else are not in my relationship and need to butt out!

ARENT YOU EMBARRASSED to say such things? DO you not feel ashamed to be so arrogant to assume you know a particular situation with no knowledge of it whatsoever?

May I be protected from ever saying such uncouth things to people I have no idea about, or to even think that was acceptable.

This isn’t Ricki Lake or Jerry springer - its actually a wellness forum?! I never asked for anyones opinion on what they think of my spouce - like have people grown so full and found of themselves to think that their own opinion is so grand?

Save yourself the indignity from talking out of turn, and retain some self respect.

@moderators : if this kind of thing is tolerated on your forums Im outta here… this is a wellness forum which opinions of my spouse have nothing to do with! thats bigotry… This negative talk and negative mindset of putting a complete stranger down is far worse than a piece of fruit…

closed #18
#19

Shutting this down until we can sort it out. Nothing but name-calling going on at this point.

#20

Hey you.

I am just going to drop a few comments here that I hope might help and clear the air a bit.

What you are craving with the fruit is sugar - it really is. It also IS akin to an alcoholic craving alcohol. It is quite likely that you stabilised your blood sugars on fruit before because you were actually still eating comparatively low carb than you were previously but the big old confounding conclusion is that it was the fruit that helped so adding it to a future diet will help. That is not necessarily the case.

I can see why you got defensive over your partner’s desire to help you out but I can also see where Mark was coming from with his comments. I actually know Mark in real life and I can assure you that his comments were from a place of kindness and concern. If I had food in my house that was off plan it would call to me too. Some people can handle it really well but others can’t. I am pretty sure I would be the latter if I had to accommodate a partners food choices. My advice, should you want it, is to have a convo with your partner. It is very clear that he is acting out of love and concern for you but the unfortunate thing is that his actions have had a different outcome to the one he desired. I imagine all you need to do is explain to him what these foods do to you and your cravings and discuss what works better for you. You can alleviate concerns about antioxidants and the like with info already provided in this thread or from further research. I am sure that all he wants to do is support you and make you happy.

I am still concerned by the length of your fasts and the fats that they are often dry to boot. Do you really need to do such lengthy fasts? I would have thought regular shorter fasts would be just as beneficial for the reasons you are doing them.

I get what you say about waste too - I am the same. I would rather waste the food though than put something in my body that I know is going to harm me - either a direct physical impact or feeling cravings.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Be well and happy. xxx