Stop telling newbies to eat more fat!

(Mark) #107

Interesting, but too much protein is not good (converts to glucose), nor is too little calories
good (slows metabolism)….so you need to make up the calories with fat…or if you cut the fat (AND calories) can the body use it’s stored fat and keep the metabolism from slowing???..THAT’s the real question! :slight_smile:

(bulkbiker) #108

unless GNG is demand driven in which case maybe not so much of a problem?

(Mark) #109

I used to wonder that also, but everything I have read says that ALL excess Protein, than what the body requires, is converted to glucose, and then most likely fat. Dr. Rosedale says that protein number is 50 grms/day for most men. Phinney and others say more like 75-85grms day. Dr. Rosedale’s number is lower because of MTOR, and desiring to live a longer life. In either case, Protein still must be watched, so replacing fat with Protein can only be done to a small extent… :frowning:

(Cathy) #110

AND to add to that, insulin resistance can mean that insulin will block the burning of body fat.

IMO,dietary fat does not cause weight gain when eaten in isolation of carbs and/or protein. Providing newbies with information to keep them feeling well is an accurate thing to be sharing. I feel like the fat phobia persists even in ketogenic circles.

(Edith) #111

I have found that pure fat does not satisfy for me.

(Diane) #112

Then there is this presentation by Dr. Benjamin Bikman regarding his research into this question of how much protein is too much protein?

(bulkbiker) #113

I was just about to post a link to Ben Bijkmans work but someone has already done that for me. Dr Rosedale is a bit of a protein phobe (akin to Phnney and fasting) I’m not convinced and eat a lot of protein (probably twice my macro) with no blood glucose problems whatsoever. Just tested at 4.8 mmol/l (86.4 in US terms) and these days am mainly carnivore.

(Cathy) #114

I tend to side to Dr. Rosedale on the amount of protein and the reasoning.

If you are using a b.g. measure to determine protein’s effect, you may be missing the mark as the conversion of excess protein to glucose is slow and if your have reasonable insulin response, it won’t show as a spike.

(Scott Dunham) #115

Excess protein is converted to glucose. Type 2 diabetics almost have to go high fat if they try keto.

(Ron) #116

You might find this interesting.

(Linda) #117

I’m with you on this. I lost this 65 pounds from my high point without regard to the protein-fat ratio at all. I’m in perpetual ketosis and my BG and A1c numbers are good.

Maybe that really high fat thing is necessary for some, but it never has been for me. I pretty much do a perpetual Atkins induction and it has been successful for me.

(Linda) #118

That’s a great link, Ron!

(bulkbiker) #119

Not my personal experience at all.

(Chris) #120

Saw another newbie thread “how to increase fat” question. Makes me wonder if the advice was in the right direction and simply misguided. What if it’s not a matter of increasing anything other than calories to break a stall?

(Yeah, I know, CICO is shit, blah blah)

Perhaps it’s really that simple. Increase what’s going in, see metabolism improve >> see results again.

(opinion)

(Ellie) #121

I suspect it is exactly that. But then the question is where the calories come from. Fat gives the calories without the insulin increase…hence the advice to increase fat.

(Chris) #122

Protein as well though. Difference being there’s more calories per gram of fat.

(Ellie) #123

Protein still gives an insulin response. About 1/2 that of carbs I think, but still a lot more than fat.

(Chris) #124

You’re missing the glucagon factor in relation to protein’s insulin response.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #125

Chris, I’ve not learned much about glucagon. Is there a lecture I could watch, or a book I could read? Tks

(Ellie) #126

Not so much ignoring it as just trying to keep things simple for newbies. Any diet that required a degree in biology from the outset is probably a step to far for most people at the beginning!