Stop telling newbies to eat more fat!

[PaulL]

It is my understanding that fat release the hormone that allows you to know when you are satiated, hence you won’t overeat.

Yes, your adipose tissue does secrete leptin, but in some people eating a ketogenic diet, this signaling mechanism appears to be permanently broken.

[tdean]

Nope I’ve lost 22.8 kg in 16 weeks and 4 days so I think I know a little bit about losing weight. Whether you believe me or not I don’t really care but if I do eat too much fat I WILL put on weight.

I’m not about to start eating more fat because you believe it is impossible to gain weight by doing so.

I do intermittent fasting but have never needed to do EF, each to their own.

[lindalou]

Brian- your comment is so helpful!! – I keep pushing the fats and I’ve been on this program for almost a year and think that by eating too much fat I haven’t allowed the program to use my OWN fat enough. Also- I like the fat too much and need to use more discipline in that area. No weight loss but lots of symptoms relief. I’m average weight but could lose 10 lbs Thanks for your strong smart message!

[lindalou]

OOPS – I mean GABE!!

[Alecmcq]

OOPS – I mean GABE!!

Linda
You can edit your previous post if you want to. just hit the little at the bottom of the post.

[tdean]

But your performance is not a denial, just an appeal to authority.

oh no its the keto police!! where’s my n=1 gun?

[gabe]

It’s unreasonable to tell people what to say on a forum and then tell them what to say. By your standard only you get to speak on behalf of the rest of us. The reader can make their own decision on whether or not they will take the advice, and that’s all it is advice–noobs(myself included) aren’t idiots–it’s a forum not a medical board. Your posts give me anxiety, I’m not sure if you realise it but you come across as a bully.

Sorry to hear you feel this way, because from memory we’ve had some great conversations on this forum! Tone can be a challenge in text-based communication, but I can assure you that “bullying” was the furthest thing from my mind and was not the spirit in which this post was intended. I think and I hope that others agree, and that this clarification makes you feel a bit better about it.

[Dread1840]

TREATING OVERWEIGHT PATIENTS

Unfortunate that the full text is paywalled, but apparently this was known in '57… Posted to the World Carnivore Tribe facebook group by Travis Statham.

The simplest to prepare and most easily obtainable high-protein, high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet, and the one that will produce the most rapid loss of weight without hunger, weakness, lethargy, or constipation, is made up of meat, fat, and water. The total quantity eaten need not be noted, but the ratio of three parts of lean to one part of fat must be maintained. Usually within two or three days, the patient is found to be taking about 170 Gm. of lean meat and 57 Gm. of fat three times a day. Black coffee, clear tea, and water are unrestricted, and the salt intake is not reduced. When the patient complains of monotony, certain fruits and vegetables are added for variety. The overweight patient must be dealt with as an individual. He usually needs help in recognizing the factors at work in his particular case as well as considerable education in the matter of foods.

[gabe]

Too many great comments here to reply to them all. I wanted to reply “exactly!” to so many of you!

One clarification: of course we’re all different and we are all going to end up finding what works for us individually. What I am saying here is that the place to start is keep it simple: no sugar, no starch.

Of course, if you have an especially deranged metabolism and you’re not dropping fat and your biomarkers aren’t improving after a few weeks (or even months), then by all means recalibrate. But for newbies, cutting out sugar and starch is going to get them started very nicely for the first weeks or months. There’s nothing more liberating than ad libitum eating, particularly when you’re starting out on this lifestyle.

[gabe]

Unfortunate that the full text is paywalled, but apparently this was known in '57… Posted to the World Carnivore Tribe facebook group by Travis Statham.

AMAZING find. Well done. Can’t wait to read the full text!

[tdean]

I agree with you Alex, this group is probably the worst example you could find of people who know how to keep weight off, me included. (hope I didn’t insult anyone)

Don’t worry I have been there and done that with the weight-loss and regain it all again several times, until now it seemed impossible to do, but Keto gives us all some hope.

Its still have a long way to go, and for me the real challenge begins when I reach maintenance.

Will I manage to keep it off using Keto? I hope so but we’ll see. Congrats for your weight-loss too, KCKO!

[Bellyman]

…this group is probably the worst example you could find of people who know how to keep weight off,…

I dunno… there are a few other groups who would probably fit that description quite well, too. Biggest Loser contestants, Jenny Craig, Weightwachers… it’s a pretty long list.

Fortunately, I’ve not had the yo-yo thing. I just got fat over about 16 or 17 years. I went on keto a year ago and have steadily dropped. There have been upward fluctuations at times, maybe 5 pounds or so, but the general trend is and has been downward.

I honestly don’t think I’m going to yo-yo. I like what I eat now. I enjoy what I eat now. I don’t go hungry now. I’m in the habit of eating what I eat now. I have no reason to change it. Truly, I’m not worried about gaining it all back.

I know, it’s N=1. And I’m good with that. (No insult taken, BTW, just sharing.)

[clackley]

There is likely no group more successful in keeping weight off as keto. I hang out on a few boards and know people who have been maintaining for years and years. I am one in fact. I lost the bulk of my weight in 2009 and have since maintained and even continued to lose a few more.

I was a keto dropout back in 2003 after 3 yrs. of it and learned the hard way why staying on plan is crucial. The other giant difference between then and now is that the science has convinced me that this is the only way I want to eat because i just feel so darn good. Becoming cognitive of that fact has been enormously helpful.

If we knew all the answers to weight loss and maintenance, we could be billionaires. There is no just one answer. Generally speaking, keto will do the most to reverse or improve those metabolic abnormalities that make us fat and sick. How exactly a person does keto will vary greatly due to any number of personal differences. I think we can all agree that going keto is switching up energy from glucose to fat. This can only happen when carbs are restricted and protein moderated. Then fat can become the primary fuel. We want to burn body fat but we also have to consume dietary fat and how a person decides on that is by playing with the amounts. If a person is not over consuming carbs/protein, eating more fat will not cause weight gain. Most people don’t eat fat independent of carbs and or protein so I would suggest that those 2 things are the cause of the potential gain.

[mtncntrykid]

The underlying issue is if I eat too much fat, I get fatter not thinner.

Respectfully,
You are doing you and it is working and that is great. But in all fairness, you have been doing restrictive keto eating (by 1000 kcals daily) since you started and really have not (aside from a daily feast) upped your fat consumption to meet or beat your macro levels for any length of time to allow the process to work and give your satiety signals a chance to function the way that many are experiencing on keto. You are still of the CICO thinking and have not been willing to give the fat to satiety a chance.

I could eat more and more so I personally need to count my calories and also watch my macros because I can blow them out of the water very easily. A steak to me is not a 90g fillet, its a minimum of 500g or its not worth eating or at least that is how I was eating until now.

This might be from a psychological standpoint from deficit eating and giving an upped fat consumption would help the mindset too.

This is just a thought and only meant as a suggestion to try something different, and if I am wrong about anything I have listed, I apologize.

[KetoLikeaLady]

• the metabolism doesn’t slow down in response, so you can do this long term

This is inaccurate. I went on a keto cutting program, where I kept very high fat (76-81%) but reduced calories. I had my RMR tested in a lab at week 1 and week 7 and my metabolism significantly decreased from caloric restriction.

[atomicspacebunny]

Eat meat and fish and oils to satiety.

If I stand to be corrected?

1. Glucose: Fat can turn into sugar and sugar can turn into fat as well as protein turning into sugar?

2. When first starting a ketogenic diet you take it slow on how much (amount) fat and protein you are consuming especially in the case of diabetic ketonauts?

3. When you are fully-ketogenic-adapted after 27 weeks or so and the cells of the body are more prone to ACTUALLY using the fat for fuel i.e. ketones, then increasing (hence “eating fat to satiety”) fat consumption would be more logical? (depending on physical activity or physical exertion variables?)

4. “Eating fat and/or protein to satiety” does not sound like a wise choice (especially in the case of the diabetic) when first starting a ketogenic diet?

5. We are eating the fat to help us “feel satiated” in-between meals or intermittent fasting NOT “eating fats/oils to satiety?”

[EmJay]

This is the infamous “Page 4” from Dr.Eric Westman’s program. You can also find it all over Pinterest but he warns that some people have modified it to be a bit more liberal.

[gabe]

“Eating fat and/or protein to satiety” does not sound like a wise choice (especially in the case of the diabetic) when first starting a ketogenic diet?

You should take this up with Dr Eric Westman, Dr Phinney, and others. This advice is pretty much standard practice AFAIK in the low carb medical community.

I’ve tracked my macros while eating ad libitum and I’m def not overconsuming protein. Everyone’s different I guess, but ad libitum is a great place to start.

[gabe]

You are still of the CICO thinking and have not been willing to give the fat to satiety a chance.

But, respectfully, I think he’s been saying that his satiety signals are messed up. So this is harder for him.

[mtncntrykid]

But, respectfully, I think he’s been saying that his satiety signals are messed up. So this is harder for him.

I do get this and understand if this is the issue but my question is that since he has been doing restricted keto from the beginning, is this really the case? Maybe an n=1 experiment (giving a reasonable length of time to work) would reveal differently.