Stop telling newbies to eat more fat!

(Chris) #122

Protein as well though. Difference being there’s more calories per gram of fat.

(Ellie) #123

Protein still gives an insulin response. About 1/2 that of carbs I think, but still a lot more than fat.

(Chris) #124

You’re missing the glucagon factor in relation to protein’s insulin response.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #125

Chris, I’ve not learned much about glucagon. Is there a lecture I could watch, or a book I could read? Tks

(Ellie) #126

Not so much ignoring it as just trying to keep things simple for newbies. Any diet that required a degree in biology from the outset is probably a step to far for most people at the beginning!

(Bunny) #127

This may sound confusing but here is my take on this:

Body uses different types of insulin when a carbohydrate\caloric deficit is maintained (e.g. fasting/ketogenic diet) which also involves mTOR bio-circuitry and it may work something like this:

IGF-1 [PITUITARY/LIVER/HEPATIC](carbohydrate\caloric restriction or fasting)===[ON switch]===>{mTOR}<===[OFF switch]===GLUCAGON [PANCREAS] (eating protein)

The glucagon (eating protein) OFF SWITCH works temporarily to shut off IGF-1, this entire process is much different from the world of the sugar burner or SAD diet…

In the case of the trace elements or metals Chromium and Vanadium (sister elements on periodic table) pull (…in symbiosis\synergistically one with the other) like a magnet the GLUT4 transport receptors closer to the surface of the cellular tissue which become recessed deep within the body tissue (organs, muscle) like in the case of diabetes mellitus…

Related:

  1. Natural Diabetes Treatments and Home Remedies… “…For those who need the scientific proof, scientists at Columbia University in New York reported in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition back in 1980 that chromium was able to significantly help elderly people with diabetes who took it in the form of brewer’s yeast.9 Researchers stated after the study that… “Chromium-rich brewer’s yeast improved glucose tolerance and cholesterol in elderly normal and diabetic subjects” . They also said… “An improvement in insulin sensitivity also occurred with chromium supplementation”. And in regards to vanadium, the University Of Vancouver School Of Medicine in British Colombia came out a few years ago and said… “Vanadium will replace insulin for adult-onset diabetics!” 8 …” …More
  1. GTF Chromium Review - 11 Things You Need to Know
(Michael Heffez) #128

Here is another link that takes a more in depth look into the Keto matter:

LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN.

(Chris) #129
(Bunny) #130

…And this (Bikman is super awesome to listen too)

(Alec) #131

Sorry, I found this video hysterical. His message is keep the keto diet simple, and then he goes on for 10 minutes complicating it.

Keto is so simple: just keep carbs very low. Period. Everything else is details.

#132

Breath output is not nearly as accurate as blood testing. I have been in ketosis for 14 months. I do a therapeutic level due to health reasons, not to lose weight, I currently have no weight to shed. FYI: intermittent fasting is one of the most important factors, looking after your body is not just about weight and what you like to eat. Peoples problems are that they really don’t want to change what they do, they only want results. I was forced to change and this really does work and it is work…should just be fun and challenging and health. Includes looking after your insulin levels (fasting, etc), being active, making sure you are ingesting the proper macronutrients and keeping track of how foods affect you. Eating all the protein you want? Ridiculous, read up anywhere, when you eat more protein than your body needs, some of the amino acids in the protein will be turned into glucose via a process called gluconeogenesis (2). This can become a problem on very low-carb, ketogenic diets and prevent your body from going into full-blown ketosis . Fact. I’ve done it more than once and I don’t play the keto game of, “look at me I’ve lost weight, or stalled.” It has to be a lifetime commitment, or else. For most, you have a choice, but the author of this newbie blog should look into some of the serious health professional ketosis authorities relating not to just weight lose. I am going to listen to the podcast given; you may also want to try Dr.Berg and Dr.D’Agostino for some good info as well.

#133

I have been in ketosis for 14 months. I do a therapeutic level of everything. Your advise about protein is simply wrong. You will not be fat adapted because: When you eat more protein than your body needs, some of the amino acids in the protein will be turned into glucose via a process called gluconeogenesis (2). This can become a problem on very low-carb, ketogenic diets and prevent your body from going into full-blown ketosis. You should not have more than .5 to .8g of protein per 1kg of body weight per day. I have done this a few times, so also understand via personal experience. I stay in deep ketosis and try to maintain my body weight, not lose simply as I have nothing to lose. Very misleading statement you are giving newbies, you obviously are somewhat read up on the topic. I haven’t the time to go into everything I have learned and researched extensively. But; good luck, I like to see everyone doing well and happy with themselves, it’s what it’s all about. Good topic.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #134

Ok, But what about the zero carb diet? Considered one of the best weight loss strategies out there.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #135

I’ve been doing over 1 gram per day of body weight, and am now at maintenance. I agree that you shouldn’t drastically overdo protein, but a reasonably active person can do a bit more.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #136

Thanks, Chris. That was a very enlightening video. You know, I apparently watched it at least once before, yet everything was all completely new, wow! Will probably have to watch it a few times more to get it all down. His interview with Biohackers Lab is also very helpful in this context:

Now to watch Mike Mutzel’s interview with him!

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #137

I think we’re misunderstanding each other. Nobody is arguing here for a much higher level of protein intake. The claim I am making (based on what pretty much ever low carb medical expert has said, most notably Phinney) is that if you keep carbs low and just eat your protein and fat to satiety, you’re going to find most newbies do NOT overeat protein, and they eat far less fat than the 70-90% being touted in forums like these. That’s because the body ends up utilising body fat as fuel, obviating the need for dietary fat intake.

I see “eat more fat” frequently being told to newbies. It’s not necessarily bad advice (though even for a relatively old hand like me I doubt it’s the answer); it’s just that it’s not good advice for newbies. Phinney agrees with me on this. People who have lots of body fat to lose don’t need to be eating bucket loads of dietary fat. It’s unscientific, it makes little sense, and it’s just not sound advice to give overweight and obese beginners. Most of whom will find eating meat and some vegetables with moderate amounts of fat will satiate them, and they’ll pretty quickly drop a bunch of the weight.

#138

This seems unnecessarily combative :face_with_raised_eyebrow: People do keto for many different reasons & in some fairly varied ways depending on their hoped for outcomes. I can eat quite a bit of protein as I’m not looking for either weight loss or a 1:1 GKI but that doesn’t mean I’m not in nutritional ketosis. Facts are that if people do have significant weight to lose then there is no harm in using body fat Vs plate fat & they may even find that a little extra protein enables this by helping them to achieve satiety sooner.

#139

I hadn’t seen the linked food list. I was surprised to see olives limited to six a day. Anyone know why? Caloric density? And why the limit on dill pickles? I don’t get it. And I see no mention of seeds, nuts (only peanut oil) or coconut.

Just six olives? That’s crazy talk! :slight_smile:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #140

I may have posted this already in this thread, so forgive me any duplication, but most of the advice I’ve seen on these forums to eat more fat has been given to people who were trying to make do on 1000 calories a day. They generally have had their carbs and protein at the right level, so the advice to eat more fat makes a great deal of sense in context.

Not only that, but myself, I almost always make a point of advising people to “eat fat to satiety,” which is not the same thing as encouraging people to eat too much fat. It is, in fact, an attempt to get people to listen to their bodies, instead of trying to out-think two million years of evolution.

There are, of course, people whose satiety signaling is broken, but they are not common. My experience is that it takes a few weeks for satiety signaling to kick in—but whether that is because it takes time to fix, or because the body wants that initial high-caloric period for some reason, I don’t know. In any case, it appears to do no harm, either to people’s metabolisms or to their weight loss. It would be nice if someone could study this, however, so we could have data to point to.

(Kee) #141

THANKS for your pdf