Still failing at keto

#102

YES! Contrary to public opinion I actually did quite a bit of homework prior to starting this. That does not really lessen the confusiobn - especially with so much conflicting information. I rely heavily on this forum, god bless you all.

#103

OK, this seems SO MUCH EASIER for me!

#104

what kind of fat do you eat?

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #105

The proper kinds.
. . .

Okay Iā€™m just being a smartass.

I eat fatty meats, I eat eggs bacon and sausage, I especially love lamb breast and pork belly, I eat butter and ghee and avocado oil and olive oil. I eat things like mayonnaise and very fatty cheese like Brie. I eat an avocado daily.

This is where I get most of my fat. I also get a lot of fat in sauces that I make such as hollandaise, bearnaise, beurre blanc, Alfredo.

I also love to deep fry vegetables in pork lard or beef Tallow or lamb tallow. I make pork rind pancakes (look this up in the recipe section), and I bread things with pork rinds occasionally. This adds a lot of fat too.
I eat fatty fish such as salmon whenever I can.

I also use coconut oil and eat nuts which are very fatty.

And donā€™t forget heavy cream. I have been known to put several tablespoons in a cup of coffee

#106

That sounds amazing! But it also Sounds full of protein which everyone here is telling me I need to cut back on. This is why I get so confused.

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #107

What sounds full of protein? My list of fats? I actually moderate my protein quite a bit if you were talking about my foods.
If you werenā€™t, never mind. Yes youā€™re going to find a lot of conflicting information. The best thing to do is find a source that you trust and go with that. I trust the information of my employer Dr. Jason Fung and Megan Ramos at Intensive Dietary Management (idmprogram.com), the information my friends Carl Franklin and Richard Morris (www.2KetoDudes.com) put out (they made this forum), and the information on the diet doctor site. www.DietDoctor.com

Remember, research is always changing and new science is being learned. 2KetoDudes, IDM and Diet Doctor realize this and will change their recommendations accordingly

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #108

Iā€™m a little confused that you seem to be seeing protein everywhere. Steak, for instance is only 1/4 protein, so if you were to eat 100 g of protein in the form of steak, that would be nearly a pound of steak, more if it was a fatty cut. As far as I know, butter, ghee, avocado oil, and olive oil are almost exclusively fat, with extremely little protein. Mayonnaise is egg yolk and oil, so yes, it contains some protein, but it is mostly fat. So is Brie. You would have to eat a lot of Brie before you got so much protein that it would be a problem. And I bet youā€™d stop being hungry before you got to that point, anyway.

Remember that fat has over twice as many calories per gram as protein has, so if you were to eat an equal amount of fat and protein by weight, youā€™d be eating in the neighborhood of seventy percent fat and thirty percent protein. When we calculate percentages, they are always percentages of total calories eaten.

(matt ) #109

This is getting trolly. OP are you serious here? Fat is not protein. Let that go.

(Ellie) #110

I may be being naive but I donā€™t think it is trolling just struggling with terminology.
@Queenv people on cooking programs and the like refer to steak as a ā€˜proteinā€™ but once you start putting things in a tracker youā€™ll see that the actual number of grams of protein in any given thing is not that high if they are fatty. Especially if you go out of your way to buy the fattiest cuts that @Brenda suggested.
Protein and fat are 2 separate components of food. I suggest a tracker for awareness, you might only use it at the beginning while you figure things out but it will help things make a lot more sense.
Edited to say that I also recall you being concerned about calories if you use too much fat. The trick is not to count calories. They are pretty meaningless as a measure so if you can keep your protein to a reasonable number and then add fat until you are full and not hungry for a few hours then you have it nailed. :wink:

#111

I never said fat was protein. Let that go,

#112

You are not naive, Iā€™m not sure what Mattā€™s problem is. As you can see in this post alone I am getting great - but conflicting - advice. Cut protein. Count calories. Count fat protein and calories. I endorse the poster that mentioned eating empty fat calories with no nutrition to be questionable. Others appear to be endorsing eating straight fat. I never insinuated that protein was fat - but when I ask how to get fat without the protein, which I am supposed to be cutting , I get a list of protein (bacon etc).

Or I am told to eat ghee. By the handfull?? I donā€™t know. I donā€™t cook, maybe thatā€™s it?

Honestly you and Brenda have an approach that makes the most sense to me. Its still incredibly confusing and Iā€™m really not sure why my desperate plea for help brought out such vicious responses! Clearly I unintentionally struck a nerve. In any case I truly appreciate the time you took to reply!

Also,I track in cronology.

#113

Pork rind pancakes sound like bliss

#114

Thank you. I see your perspective. Its helpful.

(Ellie) #115

Unfortunately in one of your earlier posts you did say fat is protein. I think it was either a typo or a comment that most things that have fat also have protein in them aside from straight fat.
I think that not cooking is probably a big part of it. Most of us get fat by cooking things in fat and pouring it over.
If you are going to do things like chicken salad, add avocado and mayo as easy sources of fat without added protein. Find some meals that you can make that hit the right level of things and repeat.
Maybe things like a tapas style plate of cheese, pate, celery, butter, olives and things like that. If you have a microwave you can make cheese crackers by just zapping slices of gouda or similar cheese for about 1-2mins. Then you can spread butter and pate on them, and you get crunch too!

Edited to add, I am fasting at the moment and just typing those food suggestions has made me hungry!! :joy:

#116

Iā€™m going to search for a post where I said fat is protein. Its obviously not - but like i said before when I ask for foods to increase fat I get lists of protein.

EDIT: I think I found it and yes, out of context it could literally be read as ā€œfat is proteinā€ which is ignorant. Obviously that is not what I meant. You are correct, I was referring to the protein fatty suggestions in the context of that conversation - which is admittedly hard to keep up with here! I edited that statement lest I be deemed a troll. Thank you for pointing it out to me.

I love these suggestions, they warm my batchelorette heart! Thank you.

(charlie3) #117

To get my results I do food tracking and exercise and, if I want to burn some fat the target is 1/2 pound per week max and less than that is fine too.

(matt ) #118

If this is all legit I apologize. Seems I misread things.

("Don't call it calories, call it food") #119

Hi!

I have read all these responses and thought I would chime in with a summary of what had worked for me. I am not an expert like many of the people on here, but my suggestion would be to see this as an experiment. Pick a course of action and try it for a month, and see where you are. Here is what has worked for me:

  1. Eat 1700 calories a day. (I am 5ā€™7" and I eat 1800, so I would guess 1700 would be good for you). Donā€™t skimp on calories. If you are under you calories at the end of the day (or by dinner time) and you are afraid of eating protein, put a Tablespoon of olive oil on your food, or eat a small fatbomb (see below).

  2. Track all your food - I weigh mine. As we start, we often donā€™t realize exactly what 100 grams looks likeā€¦ I am not planning on weighing my food for all eternity, but for a few weeks, it is a good learning exercise.

  3. Spend 30 minutes looking at Keto cookbooks (if you are a college students, your library will have some). Make photocopies of the ones you are a) able to cook/make and b) fit in your idea of limited protein.

  4. Make some EASY fat bombs. I put coconut oil, cocoa powder, and stevia drops (now swerve that I have ordered it) in a mixing bowl, drop it in some molds (order on amazon - search for silicon candy molds, you canā€™t go wrong) and put it in the freezer. No cooking, one bowl to mix up, and with my molds, each one is 1 gram of carbs (and no protein). I eat one when I know I am hungry but donā€™t need to eat a meal or more protein.

  5. I am not sure if you CANā€™T cook (no kitchen) or if you WONā€™T cook (donā€™t like it, feel like you donā€™t know how). My suggestion if it is the former is to buy a sous-vide machine and a air frier. With those plus your instant pot, you should be able to cook almost anything you need.

Mostly, figure out how to eat more calories and fat without eating more protein (as that is a concern for you). I think that you can manage that :slight_smile: If you are a full time college student at age 50, you have gumption and brainsā€¦ I think you can figure out some recipes and methods for eating more fatā€¦ Tuna salad (no cooking), cole slaw (no cooking), fat bombs, drink some tea with coconut milk (from a can - try a rooibos chai with coconut milk, it is delicious).

Then, give it a shot for at least a month, and check back inā€¦

(Robert) #120

Iā€™m in the same boat. 4 weeks in and 3 lbs lost. It is VERY frustrating for sure. I understand why you asked even though a search is possible and will reveal many threads. However, the feedback on these forums is anything but consistent. Eat fat, stop telling people to eat fat!, watch your macros! Donā€™t worry about calories! Exercise!, Donā€™t exercise! Do IF or EF but donā€™t push your body into starvation but not eating enough. Eat more! Eat less! We have a section called show me the science and the pod casts are great but everyone will tell you keto is different for everyone. You would think there would be SOME set in stone rules that simply must be followed but that is not what I am finding. It is a veritable cornucopia of mixed advice that would confuse even the most organized person. But I commend you for sticking to your guns and waiting for the great advice you have been given so far. I am reading through them now to see if I can gain any insight off your efforts. I hope what you find here helps get you over this slump.

(Richard Morris) #121

There are only 2 things most people need to do to get into ketosis. Carbohydrate restrict, and get energy from fat (either stored or consumed). To be healthy for the long term I would add eat enough protein to support your lean mass, and get adequate essential nutrition.

Human bodies are diverse - and the number of ways people have been successful with ketogenic diets are equally diverse. Some people eat a LOT of protein (up to the theoretical safe limit of 3.3g/kg LBM) and that works for them. Some flirt with protein insufficiency (below 0.8g/kg LBM) and that works for them.

Some are able to eat ad libitum (whenever you are hungry, stop when full ) and they lose weight until they plateau into a normal BMI range no problem. Some have to modestly calorie restrict to do the same. Some plateau in the overweight range and are entirely satisfied because for the remainder of their lives they can eat ad libitum and remain healthy.

All of us can probably tell you what worked for us, but even if you have exactly the same goals as me, there is no guarantee that what worked for me will get the same results for you.

What I do know is if you are type 2 diabetic then eating so few carbs that you have to make them in your liver can reverse your disease. A ketogenic diet in my experience is the best easiest way to do that. And how I did that was <= 20g carbs a day, 80-120g of protein, ad libitum fat.