Starting Keto and developing back acne

keto
newbies
acne
(DianaG) #1

Hi. I have been on Keto for almost 2 weeks. I have noticed that I have developed some serious acne on my back. I have a few face pimples, but thats not unusual for me. I read about keto rash and it kinda looks like that, except I am not itchy. I am not specifically eating more dairy. I am using MIO electrolytes perhaps that is the issue…someone please give me your opinion.

(Karen) #2

I know I’ve heard the acne question before. Something about you are releasing toxins. And that it should go away. Anyone??

K

(DianaG) #3

I hope so, Just going to wait it out and see what happens

(Helen ) #4

I was just about to post about this myself. I’m almost 3 weeks in and have developed a bad rash over night on my back and not something I normally suffer with.

I’m eating about 20g of net carbs a day. And keeping to ratio of 75% fats, 15% proteins and 10% carbs - sometimes less carbs. I did have very high ketone levels yesterday - about 6.6 !! And my glucose was very high this morning - 7.6 - having been consistently 3.8 every morning

Also went dancing and got hot and sweat can cause the rash apparently but I work out at the gym normally so not sure it is that.

Any advice would be good. Realise it could be the toxins.

(Bunny) #5
(JGL) #6

Asking follow ups only to help think through potential causes/triggers, but please please disregard and forgive me if any of these are invasive/unwelcome questions.

Are you also noticing any acne along your jawline or increased hair along your jawline? Are you on birth control? Do you have a history of PCOS? If it persists or is really severe, your doctor might investigate your hormone levels to look at if you have had any changes in your body’s regulation of testosterone.

The group of hormones called androgens can be sensitive to changes in carbohydrate consumption (increases or decreases) and if you have had any underlying androgen issues, whether exogenously triggered (birth control) or endogenously (PCOS), your body might be having some issues coping with rebalancing your androgen levels in light of dietary changes as well.
The presence of it on your back is usually linked particularly to increased testosterone production more so than any other androgen. If it passes relatively quickly or is pretty minor, I would say it is indicative of your estrogen and progesterone levels recalibrating to your new WOE, but if it is causing a real issue or is persisting, I would have your doctor check it out and make sure that you are really clear in linking its emergence to the changes in your WOE so that she can perhaps order some of the blood work to look at your androgen levels.

(JGL) #7

@Keto6468 Karen, I am very wary of the “releasing toxins” model of thinking about what happens when fat is metabolized for energy. It feels like an explanation that is given too often for things that seem idiopathic-- conditions or phenomena that arise without a readily understood cause. I think it is an explanatory model that is best avoided because it can “explain away” conditions that perhaps should have formal medical evaluation and it contributes to an overall problematic idea about bodies being riddled with all manner of undefined toxins that people end up trying to “flush” or “cleanse” or “detox” out, when our liver and kidneys, when functioning properly, are more than up to the job of doing that for us.

While it is true for some substances, many of the molecules that I have read people saying they believe are stored in excess adipose tissue, like heavy metals, are hydrophilic and commonly understood to be filtered and removed through urine. I think that the emerging models looking at “scarred” fat tissue" are more compelling and realistic re: what we are learning about cellular trauma and epigenetic cellular structure changes, but these are still a relatively new emerging, multidisciplinary studies.

While the “toxins” approach I think is overemphasized and more psychological/mind-body linked (not to diminish the role of psychoneuroimmunology, I took two semesters of it and I think it is fascinating stuff!) I think keto women apart from the PCOS contingent aren’t paying enough attention to the impact of keto on their hormonal regulation! See below for my suggestion on how androgen regulation could be involved in @DianaG 's experience.

(DianaG) #8

Thank you
I have not noticed anything like that. I do not have PCOS. I think a change in hormones might be the issue. About 1 month ago I stopped my birth control and now I completely changed my diet…I have to wait until March to see my dermatologist and hopefully it passes before then, but one of my only suspicions is maybe I do not eat enough veggies, I know Ive been slacking off…

(DianaG) #9

TY, will check it out

(Helen ) #10

Thanks very much for this. I do have low progesterone I know but not aware of any other hormone issues. However if it continues I will go to the doctors.

(JGL) #11

As soon as I saw that you went off birth control in the past month, I literally said “Yup, hormonal fluctuations!”

This might be more a conversation with your regular doctor than dermatologist, because getting your androgens in line should pretty quickly address the root cause of the acne as opposed to just treating the acne itself. A lot of people don’t take advantage of calling or emailing their doctors, especially if it is hard to see them in person. You could try calling the office and leaving a message for your doctor who might order blood work or a prescription without a visit (depends on your doctor and the state that you’re in)

The veggies aren’t necessarily related, although you might want to look into which veggies are high in natural estrogen-- all the more reason to call your doctor and try to get a sense of where your hormones are so that you know which veggies/foods might either help regulate or exacerbate any underlying androgen imbalance!

Good luck,
xoJGL

(JGL) #12

The thing with hormones is that low or high numbers of one is often a sign of underlying issues with up/down regulators. Which can certainly involve food. Since estrogen regulates estrogen (this is a simplification of the relationship, but this is just to give you a thumbnail sketch of what might be going on) and estrogen can enzymatically be converted into testosterone, the imbalance of one can impact the levels your body is producing of others. Long story short-- if your progesterone is not properly regulating estrogen levels, you might have estrogen being converted to testosterone particularly in adipose tissue. Worth talking to your doctor if you are experiencing skin issues when you already know you have an underlying hormonal imbalance.

Good luck, I hope this helps!
xoJGL

#13

@JGL if you search the forum here as well as other keto women’s health blogs you’ll find lots of keto women reporting on hormonal regulation and dramatic processes in the early months and years of keto, particularly in midlife. :slight_smile:

As others here may already know, the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City has done several biomonitoring studies on industrial chemicals in the human body - including one with a group of volunteers were found to have, on average, over 100 industrial chemicals within their bodies. Of the 167 chemicals found in the Mount Sinai study, 76 cause cancer in humans or animals, 94 are toxic to the brain and nervous system, and 79 cause birth defects or abnormal development. Among those tested were the noted journalist Bill Moyers who “only” had 84 chemicals, probably due to being gestated and raised in a time with less chemical exposure. Scientists refer to this contamination as a person’s" body burden."

In terms of the typical household in industrial culture - industrial foods deliver a steady stream of nitrates which the body deals with, and frequently the biggest exposure to toxins is via indoor pollution exposure from fire retardants, PFOA, and the ubiquitous estrogenic BPA in food & water containers.

Dioxin (in bleached paper food containers - but also in most waterways of the industrial world) is in every mother’s breastmilk at this point - and infants have a lot of baby fat that stores the dioxin. But not only that, it affects fetal mammary glands and thus the next generation’s functional physiology (along with many other things, ofc).

Exposures to chemicals that mimic biologically active chemicals that are normally found in our bodies, such as hormones, can exert effects, especially early in development, and even at low doses. Endocrine disruption and hormonal imbalance is commonplace now. In addition, the world’s largest petrochemical consumer & polluter is the U.S. DoD/military - and the world’s largest industry on the planet is pharmaceuticals - outpacing oil, gas, and petrochemicals combined. :frowning:

As Lynn R. Goldman, Dean of the George Washington University School of Public Health and Former Assistant Administrator for Toxic Substances at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has well said related to the chemicals present in commerce nearly 500 years ago “It was a fairly short list of chemicals. They lived in a world where most human needs, material needs, were met by the natural world through wood, metals, and other resources that from the natural environment. Today, we live in a very different world.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK268889/

In addition, chemical exposures often affect different populations disproportionately—and that it is often those in lower socioeconomic brackets who suffer most, due to polluted drinking water and proximity to industrial plants. In addition, childhood cancers and leukemia are becoming more common as are infertility and other reproductive problems and learning and developmental disabilities.

Being that the ketogenic way of life does create metabolic healing, body recomposition, and autophagy via fasting - it can be quite a gateway for positive public health outcomes, and I think the work of Stephen Phinney MD, Jacqueline Eberstein RN, Priyanka Wali MD, Jeff Volek PhD, along with the whole phenom at Virta Health, the LCHF conferences, and Diet Doctor are great steps forward on a micro level!!! The future is uncertain, but there is lots of healthy community development happening, and… even humor - as seen in this great talk by Andreas Eenfeldt MD, the founder of the Diet Doctor site - the world’s oldest and largest free website on LCHF/keto way of life :wink:

(JGL) #14

Hi Mary,

A little bit confused by your response, as it seems to address something wholly different than what I discussed in my original reply. It seems that you took from my post that I was trying to suggest that environmental toxins do not exist, but that is far from the point I was making. I indicated that I am wary of using “stored toxin release” as a default explanatory model of idiopathic health conditions, as had been done earlier in this post. It should not be used as a diagnosis of exclusion specifically because toxin exposure is so serious.

Toxic exposure is very serious and should always be evaluated, when specifically suspected, through the appropriate lab work and medical exams. I don’t think there was remotely any suggestion that processes of industrialization have not taken their toll on human health. However, this was a conversation about the impact of dietary changes along with birth control changes on a specific person who asked some questions. Respectfully, your response seems very macro, very broad, for the conversation that has been unfolding in this thread-- I am not sure if this was written for something else or if my points on being wary of overusing the “toxic exposure” model were misunderstood, or perhaps both? It isn’t that your points are wrong (although, small point I would avoid conference proceedings as substantiating citations as they are generally not peer-reviewed and there is plenty of solid literature for the points you’re raising), but they don’t really engage in the conversation or topic at hand, particularly as we don’t know about the life circumstances of the original poster.

Just to clarify my perspective on the topic of industrial toxicity and public health, I’ve worked with GWSPH extensively in the past and I’m teaching three medical anthropology intensives to medical students at Mt. Sinai School of Medicine at the end of the month and have tremendous respect for their industrial health work. As a critical medical anthropologist, my work is pretty literally predicated upon looking at the impact of socioeconomic vulnerability with respect to infectious disease outcomes, so again, no argument on your point on vulnerability and toxic exposure, but again, that was not what we were discussing in these posts. I believe that specificity is crucial and that casual/broad linkages are to our collective detriment when discussing issues with such significant individual and public health outcomes.

All best,
xoJGL

#15

Actually only the first para was meant for you directly @JGL . Sorry that wasn’t clear in how I tagged that. :wink:

I generally write for a broad audience here. We have various voices and approaches and threads can be quite diverse in how they develop and what is explored. I write from an extensive background in women’s health & natural healing, for the benefit of whoever might read - the discussion has various angles on root causes. Obv, one’s posts can pertain to the OP or other comments raised - threads are not completely linear. Ketogenic recomposition processes and the environmental context are a big subjects indeed.

(DianaG) #16

I am worried my doctor might be anti-keto. Hoping for the best. Thanks so much for your advice.

(Alisa ) #17

Hi DianaG. I started keto not for weight loss (I’m slightly underweight and hoped to gain weight), but to balance my hormones and get rid of my cystic acne (cheek area).
I started getting back acne (specially on my neck and I have never had acne there, I would get them mostly on my shoulders and down my back) and it got worse and worse.
I did the keto diet for about a month and a half, my face acne reduced significantly ( not completely), but my back got really bad I would always let my hair down.
And as summer was coming I craved fruits and said to myself that it’s too much for me to handle, I didn’t heal myself completely and I got painful back acne. So I quit Keto but tried to keep my carbs low (100-150g), I followed a HFLC diet (because I read an article that said you must get out of ketosis to get rid of that problem https://www.perfectketo.com/keto-rash/ ) and one week eating like this my back acne disappeared and had no more acne there, but didn’t stick to it, and as time went I was eating everything again, not like junk foods but my mom would make some homemade pastries, sweets… for Birthdays and I ate a lot of fruits specially dates.
My face acne reappeared again and had several digestive problems and food poisoning, and I said to myself I need the keto diet again in my life because it helped me deal with my sugar cravings and hunger (I would go to college satisfied and won’t worry about my next meal) and I remembered reading something about when you do keto for the second time you might not get the keto rash again so I started Keto yesterday and I will see what will happen.
This time I won’t go crazy with vegetables and greens after reading a lot about carnivore diets and that we don’t really need all that fiber. And I will keep Kefir in my diet (The first time I did Keto I was afraid of the carbs in it but the cultured milk that we have is really acidic and there is little carbs left), it helped me with digestion when I wasn’t really eating healthy.
And if I want to cheat sometimes in the future I would stick to natural sugars like fruits, milk and honey but in little quantities (will try :sweat_smile:)
I’m grateful for my acne because it helped me learn so many things.
I hope that you’re not suffering from back acne anymore.
I will try to update you after a week or so.

(Bunny) #20

Grass fed (“organic”) butter, what the grain fed butter lacks is high in retinol or the fat soluble form of vitamin A and when combined with intermittent fasting ratios is really good for reducing or preventing acne, and what is also interesting is the high insulin (spiking it constantly) increasing androgen to high levels contributing to the cause of acne to begin with as Dr. Berg points out!