So much for lack of PUFAs = no sun burn

(Bob M) #1

Background: I have been low carb/keto since 1/1/14, though I did not know about PUFAs for at least a few years into that. But I’ve had a low PUFA diet for a long time now. In fact, went on a high saturated fat diet for months.

There’s a theory that lack of PUFAs in your skin means less burning from the sun. People say they can be outside “all day” without getting burnt.

Situation: Yesterday, I was transferring phones (yes, actual wired phones) between companies and was on the phone…for over three hours. It was sunny outside, so I took off my shirt and sat on the deck for 45 minutes to an hour in CT between noon and 1pm. Got too hot, and went in.

Result? Very red. Very, very red. After about an hour of sun. Nowhere near “all day”.

Now, this is the first time this year I’ve had those body parts in the sun. But, if there is a magical “lack of PUFA in the skin” effect, it’s working only marginally for me.

On the other hand, I seem to have basically recovered from that, and don’t seem (as of today, anyway) to have any lasting effect.

(GINA ) #2

If you aren’t still red and burned today, that doesn’t sound to me like an actual sunburn. Maybe you just turned red from overheating.

(Ethan) #3

Sorry, but burns happen still. I visited my parents and talked to them outside for 1.5 hours… burned my head and arms. It was red for 2 days and peeled off. Keto/carnivore for years.

(Todd Allen) #4

We are approaching the summer solstice with the most intense sun and you get nearly an hour of midday sun on skin for the first time this year without peeling. Sounds pretty good to me. Next year get some sun every nice day starting in March or April and you will be fine come June.

(Bob M) #5

Well. we’ll see about whether I get any other effects or not.

You know, I try to get out in the sun every year, but fail. This year, we had freeze warnings in May. So, it’s not exactly conducive to getting sun when it’s 40F out.

I always have plans to get in the sun, which don’t get implemented for many reasons: doing things inside, like today; no sun on the weekends, rainy or cloudy; etc.

At least I know I’m not the only one having an issue with sun. I am about to go out and do my back in the sun (TWO whole sunny days in a row in CT!). But for about 15 minutes, not 45.

(Bunny) #6

It is really scary to think how much of our body fat is industrial seed oils from past consumption?

Here Dr. Doug McGuff talks about this:

It is frightening because it is hard to escape not eating seed oils (hexane gassed omega 6 plant sterols) unless you strictly eat unprocessed foods?

Go to a restaurant and your food is practically swimming in it even that Ribeye and other meats which get drowned in it before it goes on the grill?

Grilled veggies dowsed in it?

Then throw refined sugar (e.g. HFCS) on top of that and your skin is going to get fried by sunlight.

Then people think …oh it’s because I have light skin?.. part of your skin on a molecular level becomes refined sugar and industrial seed oils!

As Dr. McGuff explains your adipose cells are practically clogged (trapped for a long time) with this stuff and probably why people get diabetes?

Dr. McDuff says when he goes to a restaurant he tells the staff he is allergic to seed and vegetable oils…lol

I also wanted to highlight some of the things Dr. Micheal Eades points out about hexane gassed plant and seed sterols and macrophage infiltration of adipose cells, in that it illicits a immunological response (poisonous highly toxic substances) to attack the fat cell thus damaging it further? Meaning it does not want to release the type of lipid droplets it is storing?

(Bob M) #7

While all of that might be true, at some point, there’s turnover of fat in cells. (Unlike what most people think, cells, and particularly fat cells, are not static; things go in and out all the time.) That point is a matter of discussion, as I’ve heard 6 months to two years to get PUFA out of your cells. Very few studies have set out to test this.

I’m a poster child for someone who – if the “low PUFA = no sun burn” theory is true – should have low PUFA content in my cells. All of them, including skin cells.

Now, I’ve only been low carb/keto for 6.5 years, and during the first part of that, I didn’t know what a PUFA was. But since finding out about PUFAs a few years ago, I’ve avoided them like the plague. Now, do I still eat them? Yes. I still eat out at times, and everything with fat in it has PUFAs. But I’ve even cut down on pork fat and chicken, when I can, to reduce my PUFA consumption. Rarely eat nuts. Rarely eat avocados. Don’t even use much olive oil, except rarely. Went on a super high saturated fat diet to test that.

So, I would say I have low PUFA content in my cells. Of course, the only way to truly find out is to have a biopsy done, and find a lab to test it.

Anyway, going from no sun to sun still causes me issues. (Have burning and itchiness now.) Though the areas where I had gotten some base sun were fine. It’s just the areas with no sun that were bad.

Had I built up at all, I think there would not have been a problem. It’s just with a desk job, few sunny days, inside work on the weekends, etc., it’s tough to get any semblance of a base tan.

#8

I only have an issue if I’m dehydrated, don’t breath and ate a meal. Skin needs water, breathing promotes circulation of blood(water) to the skin and eating a meal will divert the blood away from the skin towards the digestive track.

The Sun is like a natural oven. We must stay hydrated so we don’t cook ourselves. :slightly_smiling_face:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #9

I have never heard anything about a connection between PUFA’s and sunburn. I do know that saturated fat helps raise cholesterol in healthy ways, and that cholesterol is what the body makes vitamin D from. (Didn’t know that till I joined these forums, btw.) I take Dr. Phinney’s recommendation to avoid seed oils high in ω-6 fatty acids, so our cooking fats are butter, bacon grease, lard, and coconut oil, which are all mostly saturated and unsaturated fats, with very little PUFA.

I find that since I started a ketogenic diet, I don’t sunburn as readily as I used to. For a pale-skinned guy from British stock who burns but doesn’t tan, this is pretty spectacular. Before I went keto, I was up to SPF 70 sunscreen or higher and still burnt after about half an hour in the sun. But now—for example, I was out in the same Connecticut sun continuously for three or four hours the other day while mowing the lawn, and didn’t get red at all. No sunscreen involved. I also notice that my left arm doesn’t feel the sun nearly so much when I drive, either (not that I’m driving all that much, these days). I seriously doubt that I could stay out on the beach all day without burning, but this is still a pretty nice side effect of this way of eating.

(Bob M) #10

The theory is that it’s the relative increase in PUFAs that cause the sunburn issue.

What I’ve found is that any skin that has not seen the sun in oh 6+ months can get burnt or at least really red. Skin that has seen some amount (not sure how much) of sun won’t burn or is very hard to burn.

For instance, my “front” was red after getting sun, but the areas around my neck, my neck, and arms, were not red at all. (In fact, I’m now peeling around my shoulders.)

The last two years, I’ve tested “new” skin to the sun, and got very red both times. On the other hand, my arms/neck/parts of my legs that are usually in the sun, don’t get red, no matter how long I’m out.

So, I think this “No PUFAs = No sunburn” is partly true: skin that hasn’t seen the sun, then gets a lot of sun = red/burnt; skin that has seen the sun somewhat, then gets a lot of sun = no burning.

(Scott) #11

I tested this theory at the beach last year, It gave my kids a good laugh.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

I do know that vitamin D helps protect skin from sunburn. It also requires sun and cholesterol for the body to produce. I wonder if it’s more that if PUFA’s are replacing saturated and monounsaturated fat in the diet, you’re not generating enough cholesterol to produce vitamin D and hence lack protection. I wonder if the body also doesn’t make vitamin D where it isn’t needed; that is, in skin that is protected by clothing. I also wonder if I have sufficiently complicated the issue and should stop asking questions now. :grin:

(Bob M) #13

I don’t know, it’s odd. The parts of my body that get some sun, for those, I actually CAN be outside for a long time. The parts of my body, in this case my chest/ab area, which never see the sun still “burn” (I got red, and I’m STILL peeling a bit).

I still take vitamin D in drops. It’s one of the few things (until the pandemic hit) I take. I always wanted to stop taking it in the summer, and use the sun instead to generate vitamin D (not to mention nitric oxide and tons of other stuff), but with a desk job and house projects, I rarely get in the sun.

Next week, I’m off, and I want to get outside for 10-15 minutes of daily “whole body” (just shorts on) sun. I’ll report back what happens.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #14

Bob, you’re simply reinforcing my idea that the outdoors is lovely, especially seen through a plate glass window in air-conditioned comfort! :rofl: