Sleep Apnea: Keto versus Devices

sleepapnea

(Jamie Hayes) #1

The typical treatment for sleep apnea is a device to deal with the symptom not efforts to deal with the cause/s.

Someone close to me showed me their dental device which made a huge difference to his and his wife’s sleep quality. See https://somnomed.com/au/products/somnodent/

But he showed me the device over his breakfast of a large orange juice, eggs on toast plus a spreadable (butter and vegetable seed oil), followed by a coffee and milk. (Of course I’ll follow up on the diet.)

I suspect undiagnosed insulin resistance (excess waistline) and I’m sure his GP did not measure or mention waist or get fasting glucose or insulin levels measured. That’s too much of a rabbit hole for time-starved GPs who are so cholesterol myopic. Is this a typical GP’s omission?

Your thoughts?


(Larry Lustig) #2

I have sleep apnea and a CPAP machine and was repeatedly advised by the sleep doctors to lose weight. This happened almost exactly at the time I started keto. My 45 pound loss had relieved, but not eliminated, the condition.


(FRANK MONTEIRO) #3

I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and could not get comfortable with a CPAP machine, but had success with a dental appliance. I was never told that losing weight was an option, but after losing 25-30 pounds on a low carb eating regiment, my sleep apnea disappeared and is now a distant memory.


(Guardian of the bacon) #4

My story is pretty much the same as Larry’s. I’ve used a Cpap for 25 years or so. Since I’ve lost 90 lbs and am approximately 1/2 way to goal I have made progress. I can now sleep semi upright in the recliner without my wife cranking the volume on the TV. I still cannot sleep laying flat w/o the cpap.


(Karen Fricke) #5

Jfricke barely snores lying on his side without the CPAP, but on his back still rattles the windows. Major change from a year ago. Doctors may mention that losing weight will help, but sleep apnea is dangerous, if can lead to high blood pressure, falling asleep while driving, and poor sleep contributes to obesity. The patient with sleep apnea shouldn’t wait months for the weight to come off, they need it fixed sooner.


(Karen Fricke) #6

Doctors could spend all day telling patients that their apnea, diabetes, heart failure, peripheral vascular disease, arthritis, and back pain could all be better if they lost weight. Most of the time the patient agrees, and they both know nothing is going to change. They give you the handouts that say you’re overweight, but don’t spend much time on it, because most of the time they’re wasting their breath. I have friends that have seen my weight loss and claim they want to lose weight, but they don’t want to give up carbs. Even if the doctor suggested low carb, most patients won’t do it. At this point, it would take Oprah and Dr Oz recommending it for most of the general public to buy into it.


(Tessy M.) #7

For much of the population who have sleep apnea, it is a weight/diet issue. My husband is on that list. As he loses weight with me, his sleep apnea isn’t as bad and has had to have his cpap adjusted to reduced pressure. However, in his family he has three female cousins, none of them overweight and all in great physical condition, who suffer from sleep apnea. I’m curious to know what might be the cause for people like these three women? Weight is usually what they “blame”.


(migorstmarseille) #8

I have been using a CPAP machine for about 16 years and love it. I took to it immediately. At the time I started using it I was not terribly overweight. I went from about 280 lbs. to the 360 lbs I reached back in mid 2014. At the end of last year, down almost 50 lbs, my doctor lowered my CPAP from the highest pressure down a few levels. So being overweight does have some bearing on it. However, I have had apnea since I was a late teenager, when I was a skinny 220 lbs and 6’6". YMMV.


(mezz_2000) #9

I work in Sleep medicine. Weight is definitely a huge contributing factor for sleep apnea, but it isn’t the only cause. I would caution anyone thinking of stopping their CPAP just because they have lost weight to not do so without going in for reassessment. In saying that, it kills me that I believe I know of something amazing (keto) that could really help patients with OSA but it’s just not in my professional capacity to offer unconventional advice.


(Dustin Cade) #10

My keto journey started with my sleep apnea, my lady was worried about the severity of my snoring, also that I would wake both gasping for air, awful acid reflux, totally drenched in sweat… so I went to my GP to get a refural for a sleep study and to get my umbilical hernia fixed… I was shocked that I was 421lbs… my insurance wouldn’t cover a in lab sleep study so I did an in home study. They found that I stopped breathing about 41+ time an hour. So since June 21st I’ve had my hernia fixed got my apnea machine my sleep apnea is under control, my keto journey is well under way and I’m down 54+lbs… 2016 was for real a life changing/saving year to say the least! I don’t don’t wake up in a pool of my own sweat anymore… that in of itself is huge


(Ben) #11

I posted this on another thread:

I’ve had a CPAP machine for 17 years, and although I never grew to love it, I did get to appreciate its effectiveness. On the odd occasions when I’d fall asleep before I put it on I’d really notice the difference the following day. My uvula would feel like it had been 10 rounds with Mike Tyson and I’d feel tired and terrible all day.

In June last year,(I’d been keto for 3 months and had lost 30lbs by then) I got hit in the face by the ball playing cricket. And for a couple of weeks my nose area was too sore to wear the mask. After the first night without CPAP I asked my girlfriend how bad my snoring was and she said I hadn’t snored. And my uvula felt fine. I was astonished.
And during that fortnight I didn’t feel tired and terrible, so I never went back to wearing the mask.

I set my phone to do a timelapse video of my sleeping during the night a few times and they showed I was having very restful sleep.

So I asked to be re-tested by my lung function unit and the test showed the same - very few apnoeas and only when I’m on my back, which isn’ t often.

I went in to discuss the results and they agreed I could leave the CPAP machine with them. Living without it is marvellous and it’s a fantastic incentive to keep on ketoing on.


(Dustin Cade) #12

I have a Samsung Gear fit 2 watch, if you wear it whilst sleeping it will monitor your sleep, if I fall asleep on the couch on somewhat sitting up it will show the same % as if I’m sleeping on my side in bed with my mask… I really do sleep so much better with it…


(Wayne Godfrey) #13

I’m not a doctor; don’t play one on TV; and didn’t sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so take this for what it’s worth. :slight_smile:

There are many different causes for sleep apnea (weight, structural, neurological, etc.) and weight is only one of them. I developed sleep apnea before becoming significantly overweight. Gaining weight made it worse, and losing the weight after starting Keto made it better, but it’s never going to go away for me because of weight loss.

Follow your doctor’s advice.


(Stickin' with mammoth) #14

After only a few months of keto and very little weight loss, the breathing problems I encountered laying on my back at night went away. So, either all the weight loss occurred in my neck (my pants disagree) or there are contingent factors at play. Either way, happy.


(Lee Jones) #15

I was diagnosed with severe obstructive sleep apnoea (86 events per hour) about 18 months ago but I refused to go the Cpap route as I knew I could never take to the machine. Since finding Keto there’s now over 50 pounds less of me and my wife no longer nags that my snoring keeps her awake. Been checking my BP this week as per my Dr’s instructions and have found my readings are way too high so I may book in for another sleep study and see if the Apnoea is still a problem.

Crazy thing is is that when I was at my worst with it my blood pressure was in the normal range :persevere:


(Meeping up the Science!) #16

There are many skinny people with sleep apnea. There’s a number of children misdiagnosed with behavioral disorders and ADHD who have it due to the way their throat is structured - most normal weight. The lack of sleep causes the behavior they manifest.

So, it really depends on the cause of the apnea.

Often doctors encourage patients to lose weight. Many of us who are obese were told countless times to lose weight - it is, as we all know, not necessarily easy the conventional way.

My GPs for the past several years have had bariatric training so they do look at fasting glucose or insulin. Someone morbidly obese should see GPs, preferably good ones obviously, who are trained in such matters. Sadly, I do not believe most people understand shopping for doctors to start with, and many, at least here in America, cannot choose their GPs easily.

It always falls on us to be educated consumers. And, don’t doubt that as a patient you are seen as a consumer first and a patient second - healthcare is all about the business.

Having said all that, absolutely we must treat the causes. Obesity is complex, though, and diet is not often the only cause. More frequently it’s behavior, and physicians are not always trained to treat maladaptive behavior.


(Jamie Hayes) #17

Here’s a very interesting podcast episode that those with sleep apnea may value. It’s an interview with dentist/author Mark Buhenne about mouth taping each night. Here’s the link Check out this cool episode: https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/high-intensity-health-radio/id910048041?mt=2&i=1000381229284


(Todd Allen) #18

Having a deviated septum surgically corrected allowing me to breath through my nose significantly improved my sleep apnea. A few months dieting transitioning from HCLF to LCHF to keto and i’m sleeping great


(Tom) #19

I used to work in a sleep lab, as well as having sleep apnea treated by a CPAP. While OSA is often a weight issue, sometimes it’s a facial and pharyngeal dimensional issue. To wit, I saw several old farmers and ranchers while working in sleep lab who were the cliche of a skinny old cowboy, yet had severe OSA. And, I’ve even seen cases in which a person loses a ton of weight and ends up with worse apnea, which I hypothesize was d/t some of the fat around the neck actually helping stent the airway open. Consequently, I usually urged my patients to shoot for weight loss, but under no circumstances should they quit using the cpap without seeing their doc for a re-evaluation of their apnea and/or adjusting the pressures of the machine. Improved apnea is still apnea, and it’s still associated w/ an increased risk of stroke or MI.


(mezz_2000) #20

I have had several patients come in for sleep apnoea reviews with mouth taping as treatment. All I can say is that if anyone is going to go down this path as a treatment option please get a review study done to see how effectively it is treating your OSA as the studies I’ve looked at have had very little if any improvement from mouth taping.