SGLT2i As Keto "Cheats"

(Teb Tengri) #1

In reading an NIH page on empagliflozin it states that it removes “The mean cumulative UGE was 71.7 g in a fasting state compared with 75.9 g in a fed state with the 50-mg empagliflozin dose over 24 hours following oral administration.”

I read this to mean even fasted it’s making you pee out ~71g of carbs(gluconeogenesis and from glycerol in triglycerides, etc) and ~76g when you eat(so carbs from food.

Wouldn’t this mean you could cheat a few more carbs in some days if you used this and still hit ketosis?

Before people go nuts about “muh dangers”, I’m well aware of ketoacidosis risk(I’m not T2 nor T1 diabetic) and I take 6g of sodium and ~10g of potassium via K-βHB and Na-βHB a day along with Magnesium so it’s highly unlikely in my instance. I’m also in Mexico so I can buy this over the counter and don’t need to suck up to a doctor to biohack as much as I want.

Any thoughts, experiences? I’ll be posting numbers later on my own experiences with this.

SOURCE:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4450666/

(bulkbiker) #2

Are you seriously suggesting that you might take a drug with some fairly major side effects just so you can eat more carbs?
Odd thing to see on a ketogenic forum… takes all sorts I guess…

(Teb Tengri) #3

The side effects are only “major” if you get them.

I suppose those who questioned the high carb, low fat dogma even before the 90s were all sorts too. :man_shrugging: It really does take all sorts.

(Teb Tengri) #4

I can buy Saizen HGH OTC as well :rofl::rofl::ok_hand::ok_hand::ok_hand::clown_face:

(bulkbiker) #5

Every drug has side effects… whether you notice them or not is a moot point…

(Teb Tengri) #6

Are you claiming all side effects exist just some or all are below a noticeable threshold in the majority of people?

Even side effects that are a result of a congenital things like lacking or low metabolizing/clearance of certain drugs?

(Teb Tengri) #7

@MarkGossage I apologise if I was a bit snarky. Was dragging a** at the gym after my daughter was up most of the night.

(bulkbiker) #8

Snark away my friend… everything you put in your body has an effect… if you want to ingest some poison then feel free…I’m just slightly surprised that someone who has bothered to join this forum would seriously consider taking a drug to allow more carb consumption.

It’s your health I’m concerned about.

(Bunny) #9

I imagine this stuff is probably used for seriously high blood sugars, a little more potent than metformin but can be used along with Metformin and injectable insulin.

Footnotes:

[1] “…Empagliflozin is an SGLT2 inhibitor, a drug class which helps to stop sodium-glucose transport proteins that have been filtered out of the blood by the kidneys being reabsorbed back into the blood. Empagliflozin allows a significant amount of sugar to be removed through urination…”

SIDE EFFECTS:

“…As the drugs cause more glucose to be excreted in the urine, there is a higher chance of getting genital and urinary tract infections These side effects are more common in women than in men.

•Taking SGLT2 inhibitors with insulin, sulphonylureas or glinides may increase the risk of hypoglycemia.

•SGLT2 inhibitors can, in rare cases lead to a dangerous condition called diabetic ketoacidosis Ketoacidosis may occur whether your sugar levels are high or healthy, so it is important to know the symptoms. …” …More

[2] “…During nutritional ketosis, it is normal to have blood ketone levels of 0.5–3.0 millimoles per liter (mmol/L). According to the American Diabetes Association, a person should check their ketone levels if their blood glucose levels are higher than 240 milligrams per deciliter (mg/dl). …” …More

240 mg/dl is 13.3 on a ketone blood meter.

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(Teb Tengri) #10

@MarkGossage are there not some here who use gear or HGH?

(bulkbiker) #11

No idea what you are talking about?
If you are talking about me then no…

As I said do what you want… it’s your body and your health…

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #12

Given the effect of insulin on the body, and given the effect eating carbohydrate has on insulin levels, I’d be curious to know the reason for needing to eat more carbohydrate. There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate, and the optimal level of glucose in the bloodstream is very low, so it is possible to be quite healthy, while not eating any carbohydrate at all.

What little I know of statins and SGLT2 inhibitors makes me want to stay far away from them, in any case. And since their effects can be mimicked safely by diet alone . . . .

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #13

OR, you can just eat all kinds of great stuff like I do, that you would swear was loaded with carbs (keto bread, artificial sweeteners, etc) and not even have to worry about some weird designer drug.
If you want some “good, safe drugs” smoke weed :wink: Then lift weights, or go climb a mountain or something fun.

(Teb Tengri) #14

Did the AT hiking in 2018, married with kids now so it’s the 65L pack around the neighborhood with the kid in tow or maybe a rare weekend overnight.

I’m more curious about using it for social carbs. I’m married to a Mexican, in Mexico til she has her visa and it’s less socially acceptable to skip eating at gatherings. The “I’m diabetic” lie works but I don’t wanna seem a total pariah.

(Teb Tengri) #15

If anyone thinks I’m crazy then I need to point out the “medical profession” is slow to move as we should all know in regards to keto and fasting.

They’re discovering this but only cutting edge docs are off label doing it if any at all.

SOURCE:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30972878/

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #16

I can only speak for myself of course, but “even if” this stuff worked, so does just keeping my carbs down around 20-30 a day… Even as dirty and lazy as I am with my Keto, my weight still stays rock solid.
I guess if I were like some folks for whom it’s not as easy as it is for me, I might need to try other things.

But I’m good. Thanks.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #17

If you have any of the symptoms of metabolic syndrome, then it is in fact extremely likely that you are an undiagnosed diabetic, so you may not be lying at all. :grin:

(Teb Tengri) #18

I had “idiopathic” high BP from 25+(maybe before, Army docs didn’t diagnose it til then) even when running and doing PT in the Army. Looking back it was almost certainly my diet and climbing insulin resistance. I think about 36 it started to swap to not being able to make more insulin as I started getting fat.

I’m on 18-23 hour fasts daily and a 36 hour on Fridays into Saturdays usually and am heading for blood work the first, assuming the world hasn’t shut down. If my A1C and fasting insulin etc are good I’ll just stick to my telmisartan and won’t feel the need to be my own guinea pig.

I’ll obviously never know if I was diabetic or pre but looking at weight loss that didn’t happen despite trying CICO and exercise I tend to believe I was.