Seldom carbs after keto adaptation

(Abhishek Anand) #1

I am trying to understand how harmful it would be to have a high carb meal, say once a weak after keto adaptation. Also, are their ways to minimize the impact on keto adaptation, e.g. exercising before/after meal or fasting after the high carb meal.
After one such meal, my glucose jumped to 136mg/dl and blood-ketones plummeted to 0.3 mmol/litre. But ketones were back to 1.5 the next day just before a late lunch. Also, urine ketones were undetectable, which means [1, chapter 13] that uric acid was properly being removed by kidneys and hence the levels of uric acid in blood should have not risen significantly?

[1] : Volek, Jeff S, Stephen D Phinney, Eric Kossoff, Jacqueline A Eberstein, and Jimmy Moore. The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide to Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable. Lexington, KY: Beyond Obesity, 2011.

(Anderson Herzogenrath Da Costa) #2

It’s hard to say how harmful it is. The effect will be different on each person accordingly to their level of carbohydrate tolerance/insulin sensitivity and the quantity and type of carbs on the food.

Other than the effect on blood glucose and ketones you also need to account for other effects like cravings.

If it works for you and you are happy with the results, go for it.

(Mike W.) #3

I would also add water retention and possible inflammation. Things I try to avoid at all costs…

#4

Do you mean that a weekly cheat meal might cause water retention and possible inflammation?

(Mike W.) #5

Yes. What is the purpose of the cheat meal?

(Abhishek Anand) #6

The purpose is simple: some high-carb dishes are delicious and cannot be made low carb (e.g. by substituting X by Y) without totally spoiling the taste.
Also, why would water retention be a problem?

#7

How does a cheat day cause water retention and inflammation? Sorry, still learning and was hoping you could elaborate a bit further.

(Dany Bolduc) #8

Blood glucose (raised by sugar intake) stimulates the pancreas to release insulin in your blood stream.

High insulin in turn tell your kidneys to retain water and salts.

(In that state, consuming excess sodium will aggravate water retention further and that’s the part people focus on when stating “Salt causes water retention” since the high blood glucose has become a de facto state… but I digress)

In a ketosis, blood glucose is low so insulin is also low, so the kidneys flushes water and salts (which is why it is important to properly hydrate yourself and replenish your electrolytes when in ketosis).

When you eat that cheat meal, insulin is released and instantly your kidneys start holding onto fluids.

As to the inflammation. If you have not felt or noticed an incredible reduction in inflammation pain once you got into ketosis, it is probably that you are one of the lucky ones that do not have a whole lot of inflammation to start with.

I, for one, had so much inflammation that I can pretty accurately predict my blood ketones just from the level of inflammation pain I feel … or do not feel.

Above and beyond the above 2 considerations I would be wary of the effects this cheat meal has on your sugar cravings.

These cravings can last up to 72 hours. Having a cheat meal every week means you are at least half the time having to deal with these cravings.

Now that you are relatively new to Keto, the discipline of maintaining a ‘single’ cheat per week is fairly easy.

But once you become a little more relaxed in your Keto, you risk falling off the wagon more easily, or even permanently.

There are 0 benefit for the vast majority of people to ever have a ‘carby meal’. And even for the high level athletes that ‘might’ benefit from it, it’s highly debatable.

Also note that there are ‘countless’ very keto friendly ways/recipes you can ‘cheat’ with or indulge in that will not have any of these bad side effects.

Look for and find something that will fill that need for you without it being sugar. You’ll be happy you did. And believe me, very soon, you will NOT miss sugar at all.

(Mike W.) #9

Thank you, @Dany. When I “cheat” now I have the 24 oz Sirloin instead of the 16 :joy:

(Todd Allen) #10

Also eating keto can create a short term form of insulin resistance sometimes called physiological insulin resistance where tissues that can switch to burning fatty acids or ketones leaving the little glucose available for the brain and red blood cells. These tissues may not respond quickly to an abrupt change to a high carb meal which can result in spiking blood glucose and insulin.

Even if one wasn’'t diabetic before it might be a good idea to measure the post prandial blood glucose response to cheat meals.

(Carpe salata!) #11

I just got back from 3wks vacation. For some of that I was staying next to the cheesecake shop in Waikiki…

Overall I ate keto-ish … that is, if the meal came with rice or potato, I would just leave it on the plate, and I tried to order the meals ‘with salad’ option. Also, no bread rolls.

Outcome? Increased 4kg, increased lethargy, reduced flexibility, minor headaches. But had a relaxed vacation, overall positive.

Now, back to some srs keto with this perspective that I feel much better with keto!

(Abhishek Anand) #12

Did you measure blood or urine ketones during the trip?

(Carpe salata!) #13

Nope. I just freestyled it.

It was interesting that although I had let myself loose as it were, I didn’t really want to eat the carbs that I would have before keto.

I was definitely ‘out of keto’ as far as I could tell, my glucose tolerance test had been OK prior to vacation, I only went wild on that one visit to the cheesecake place where I got a sugar sweat.

Pre-vacation glucose tolerance test: fasting glucose 5.2, insulin 4; 75ml glucose 1hr 6.5, 59; 2hr 4.7, 10.

Today … scrambled eggs in butter for breakfast. So far, so good. Looking forward to being back in keto.