Satiation signal, where art thou?

(What else is there to talk about?) #1

Prior to Keto (end of 2018) everyone that knew me would be shocked at how much I could eat. I’m a female, 5’2 and could out eat any football player if I chose to do so.

That all magically changed when I became fat adapted. I’d eat and all of a sudden I’d be putting the fork up to my mouth and I could not physically eat another bite.

When on holidays I’d eat whatever I want, would go back to Keto when I returned and within a few weeks my weight would be back where it was as well as my satiation signal would be ”loud and clear”.

But after my last indiscretion 4 months ago which was 10 days of stuffing my face in Paris, a window of a few weeks Keto and then the Christmas holidays (so another ten days of eating less than stellar food choices), my satiation signal has not returned.

Went back to Keto first week of January determined to get back on track with food, fasting and weight loss but have slowly regained instead. Has anyone had this happen to them? Did it ever come back? Have I yoyo-ed with Keto to the point of no return?

(Full Metal KETO AF) #2

If you’re stalled this long and actually gaining I would look at what you’re eating and definitely consider doing IF and TMAD if you haven’t moved to that yet. I suspect you’re eating more carbs or not enough fat but we would need more info from sample menus. More info about you as well like your current weight, age, and how much you think you should weigh. And what your typical eating hours are. :cowboy_hat_face:

(What else is there to talk about?) #3

Hi David, thank you for responding.

I am 39 5’2 and 142 lbs and 120 I think would be the right weight for my size and build.

Most days I make 3 eggs with 35% cream cooked in a tablespoon of butter and a side of bacon. Also, I usually have 2 espressos with cream.

At lunch I often have Chinese pork (not the bbq pork that is sweet but the one that is cooked whole and has the crispy skin on it) or I’ll have Sinegang (A sour soup with pork ribs ) or crispy pata (which is pork leg deep fried) no veggies on the side.

For dinner I’ll sometimes have burger with cheddar cheese, grilled zucchini and peppers or sometimes I’ll have a house wonton soup no wontons but with the assortment of meats and veggies.

You’re right before the holidays I rarely ate breakfast but now it’s more difficult to do that. So I only skip it about twice a week. I just don’t get that full feeling anymore.

#4

I doubt there is such a thing as too many on/off keto, I did it a zillion times :smiley:
But I experienced quite a few times that when some drastic diet change is new, you have unusual, positive unusual things… But it doesn’t stay like that forever. Fat adaptation, carnivore, OMAD, they changed things and I finally easily avoided overeating and even started to lose… But then my impressive eating skills got back something of their ancient glory. The mentioned things are still great and helpful but I need to take some effort too, it’s not that automatic controlled satiated miracle state anymore (well it was too effective sometimes and I underate so I am glad it didn’t stay exactly so).

It’s a bit unclear to me what you mean about not having a satiation signal. You can eat and eat and eat without getting satiated? That’s serious, I only have that (kind of… I still get satiated eventually just not as perfectly as with much less food on a proper diet) when I eat too much carbs but added fat isn’t very helpful either. So maybe it’s about food choices for you as well…? I know the situation when less carbs works wonderfully for a while but later one needs to go lower…

But you can ruin your fat adaptation for a long enough carby enough time, I think, it seems it’s the case with me. If I go off for too long and too far, my “fat adaptation signs” start to wear off. Hunger and satiation is so complex, the carb limit my body handles well (I mean proper satiation/hunger signs now but it’s true for other things as well) tend to change, it seems.

I am pretty sure you can make things good again but it probably takes time (but it was already long ago you got back to keto…), maybe more strictness as well… How, I can’t know, we need different things. A small eating window works well for me, for example. And as low-carb as possible. And as little added fat and heavy/sour cream as possible. But for you…? Try out things, maybe something will help. Eggs and fatty meat tend to be quite satiating but everyone is different.

(What else is there to talk about?) #5

All the other times I’d gone off plan previously, I’d eat carbs on holidays and when I’d return to Keto, after a couple of weeks, I’d get that too full to eat another bite feeling when I had enough or slightly more than enough to eat. Now I don’t get that anymore, it’s like before when I ate carbs. I’m a bottomless pit!

(Full Metal KETO AF) #6

It sounds like a pretty good diet as far as food choices. So you eat the Filipino food for lunch a lot? Are you sure it’s as low carb as you think it is? I cooked Chinese food for a living and sugar and corn starch find their way into most stuff. Just be careful. I can’t really explain your sense of satiety not being there unless you’re in that carb purgatory where you’re not quite low enough to be in solid ketosis. If 120 is a realistic weight then you should have enough body fat to supply energy still. If you eat a heavier at two meals you might be okay dropping breakfast or dinner depending on what you prefer. There’s some evidence an earlier eating window works better for weight loss than a later one by that doesn’t work for everyone. It doesn’t really sound like you’re too high in the carbs from your sample meal, keeping insulin lower for more hours through IF should be your next goal. :cowboy_hat_face:

(What else is there to talk about?) #7

I’ll go hunting online to see what Ingredients are used in sinigang and my other usuals. They might be the culprits. You’re right, I really do need to get back to TMAD every day.

#8

yes there is a point of no return in a way. but wtih back to basics hardcore we can handle it,. Our bodies are abused daily thru environmental factors, stress and other things that we have around us and deal with…then we play the ‘eat a ton of sugar’ and ‘diet the next time’ and at some point your body says screw you and we have to fight OH so much harder and harder and harder with little or no results from our efforts and more.

We toy with the body all the time. All of us do this at some point and have to find the right path back :slight_smile:

Get back on keto plan, eat the way you always do and ‘fight’ the sugar cravings your body is now reacting to again. You have to detox again, fat adapt again. It is like you are ‘new to plan’…go all in with your good eating as you did before and don’t look back…but sure don’t go off plan again. Up your fat when needed, eat more protein when needed etc like ya did way back when you started.

Back to absolute basics. Clean up all your food. Control your meals to your cooking and satisfaction etc. Best I think you can do is roll back there and hang on :slight_smile: But it sounds like you surely know your plan well and I know you can easily do what it takes to re-adapt and detox etc. and get it all out of your body to clean again…hold strong :slight_smile:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #9

@Equines_or_Food This is likely to be the problem. For example, how much sugar is in the sinegang? You might be surprised. Also, re-check the nutrition labels on all the foods you eat. Processed food formulas can change without notice, and a food that was safe for keto at one time, can suddenly be loaded with more carbohydrate and sugar. Dr. Phinney’s advice to people feelling stuck is to (a) cut back on carbohydrate intake, and (b) increase fat intake. He says at all costs to avoid increasing carbohydrate.

(What else is there to talk about?) #10

I think Sinegang is a major culprit. Prior to me being let go due to Coronavirus a couple of weeks ago, it was my work place staple. I’d eat it at least 3 times a week because I’ve always ASSumed that it was so sour tasting there wasn’t anything sugary/carby other than the minimal count from the book Choy and token spinach leaves. I’ve looked up on different “counters” and it’s not great at all. Especially considering I’d order 2 portions every time😳

Thank you for your reply

(What else is there to talk about?) #11

I’ll just keep at it and wait it out. Thank you!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #12

You’re welcome.

BTW, people on these forums are generally quite helpful in critiquing diets and looking for possible problems. There is even a sub-forum for this purpose. People will generally want a certain amount of information from you, so be prepared to share your age, sex, height, weight, body composition, etc., to the extent you can, as well as a representative description of your daily diet. We don’t want to pry, but the more information you can share about yourself, the more useful the critique is likely to be.

P.S.—The biology of satiation is complex, but the two main hormones are ghrelin, secreted in the stomach to stimulate hunger, and leptin, secreted by the adipose tissue to signal an abundance of stored energy (fat). These hormones are detected by the hypothalamus gland in the brain, which regulates our sense of hunger and satiety. An elevated level of insulin binds to the leptin receptors in the brain, blocking a sense of satiety, thus leading to a more-or-less continual feeling of hunger.

This makes sense, when you consider that the elevated insulin is calling for glucose to be converted into fatty acids for storage, so the other organs are being deprived of energy. And if you are fattening up for the winter, you don’t really want to stop eating, do you? When insulin levels drop low enough, the adipose tissue is free to release the fatty acids to be metabolised, and the hypothalamus can again receive the leptin signal that we can stop eating for a while. This is the normal situation: when we eat, energy gets stored in the adipose; we eat enough for the leptin signal to tell the brain we can stop eating for a while; then, during the overnight fast, energy is released to feed the body. We then get to a point where we need to break our fast, and the process starts over again.

(What else is there to talk about?) #13

Your post was very helpful. Thank you!