Safe altervatives to Statins

(B Creighton) #41

It’s just the way it naturally evolved for me. I had time to prepare a protein rich breakfast in the winter. Also, the more I learned, the more it just fit naturally. The body is basically designed to do keto in the winter. I live above the 37th parallel, and by keeping my home cooler in the winter, I am both saving money, and encouraging more brown/beige fat to help me burn more calories.

Also I have begun to feel that muscle building is more effective in spurts. There are things the body does that tends to shut down muscle growth if pursued over a long period.

In the spring I change out some protein at breakfast for a lesser protein in a PB, banana, raisin sandwich which I started eating as a teenager - instead of having eggs. Yes, it’s more carbs, but exercising post-prandial walking prevents spikes in blood sugar and insulin, and I do plenty of walking come April. My dinner is the same or some slightly carbier fare. I have adopted things like chickpea noodles for spagetti. I even do a sweet potato - lentil soup my wife loves. All legumes are now organic, as sometimes they have more glyphosate/RU than GMO crops, unfortunately, unless they’re organic.

(Denise) #42

I’ll be look into Dr. Kendrick info on heart-disease :wink:

The hardest part for me is working with these doctors that have been in school for 10 years but know so little about what these “other” doctors have discovered.

It’s very hard to “just believe” even though I did prove to myself that eating good nutrition saved me from metformin, and so far, I haven’t take a statin either. The jury is still out on that one because I have "un-commonly high cholesterol numbers.

I’ve heard all the arguments, both sides and basically, this a.m. I think it all is just too overwhelming, thanks for all the input, Denise

(B Creighton) #43

That is one of the issues with our current state of affairs Denise. Most doctors receive no training in nutrition, and those that do probably take no more than a course or two in nutrition. Most still believe the typical advice to engage in a low fat, low calorie diet, and is what they will recommend to their patients because they really don’t know better. That is beginning to change, but it is difficult for many to believe that having a medical degree doesn’t automatically enable doctors to give the best dietary advice. To further complicate things, most dietary studies are simply not that controlled - this is simply hard to do with people. So, most dietary studies end up having large subjective factors unless they are done in lab controlled environments. So, even if you want to rely “on the science” the very nature of dietary study conditions can limit their dependability ie scientificness - a lot of them are epidemiological - this results in varying opinions.

Some people simply are genetically “hypercholesterolemic” and maybe taking a statin is best for them. Their bodies either just make a lot of cholesterol or they absorb a lot of cholesterol from their diet or both. I am not one who believes cholesterol is necessarily bad. I believe CVD is more a consequence of oxidized LDL particles so can happen in people with low cholesterol numbers - and a lot of heart surgeons will confirm they end up doing surgery on patients with normal or even low cholesterol numbers.

I personally am statin averse, but if I had high cholesterol and couldn’t get my numbers down any other way, I may consider them. If, you do end up on a statin, you should strongly consider supplementing with CoQ10, since statins generally suppress its production in the body. Personally, I would see what happens by adopting promising dietary changes first… I believe including soluble fiber in the diet is very promising.

(Denise) #44

I’ll see how I do at the doc appt today. I don’t want to “cave” and try a statin, and I will be going to the store after appt. for some of the things on my list :wink:

I forgot to mention the only other thing on my blood-work was low Red Blood Cell count. It’s at 4.12 and I guess it should be, according to US figures, 4.2 to not be flagged. I know there are natural ways of helping that, but not everyone here knows, or remembers that I am weaning off a bad-ass drug (a benzodiazepine) I took for too long. I think a lot of my issues are from the withdrawals from it.

I’ll come back later, been up since 3 a.m. get a lot of insomnia, weird hours. Too much to even think about, thanks so much for all your help, I really do appreciate someone to talk to about all this :wink:

(Doug) #45

Very well said. :slightly_smiling_face::clap:

There is often an absolute ocean of distance between the ‘generally accepted’ medical status quo and what may be best for a given individual.

– A survey of 1182 medical students in the U.S. Survey began in 2021, results were published in 2023.

"An average of 1.2 hours of formal nutrition education per year was reported across
all participants."

So, many times it will be on the individual, or possibly a family member or friend, to figure out what’s best for themself. Even among people who eat ketogenically, there are prevalent differences in amounts of fat and protein, fasting or not, dairy or not, etc.

Want to ‘control’ for accurate results? No better way than focusing on one person… :stuck_out_tongue:

(E P) #46

My LDL has soared on super low carb too. Adding back 50g carbs fixed it in a month’s time. If you can tolerate a few more carbs, that seems like a big lever to pull. Probably worth a try before statins.

I don’t think you’re crazy for wanting your LDL not wild OR for not wanting a statin - I’m in the same boat myself.

(Denise) #47

I know before I got so low in my carbs (under 20g a day) I was doing up to 50 per day, and still lost the weight, and the cholesterol wasn’t so high.

I’m trying to get my records for when I started keto, should have copied and saved them, some might be here even, I’ll search and see. I just don’t remember what my lipid panel was 4 years ago. Teach me to keep better track right :wink:

What I know is it’s continually climbed, but my trigs have always stayed in the good range. I was taught about that way back when. Bottom line, is I will try to add in more carbs just to see if it’s lowered, just for “my” peace of mind.

(FRANK) #48

Safest alternatives to statins is NO STATINS. Research the history of cholesterol and big pharma statins. You’ll live longer and in old age your brain will thank you.

(B Creighton) #49

Soluble fiber can even help people lose weight. If you would be willing, post numbers after at least a month of eating soluble fiber at every meal.

Did your Dr visit go OK?

(Denise) #50

Anyone here know if it’s true that Dave Feldman has had 2 strokes? I read the info on a diabetes forum. They had a topic on LMHR.

Just an FYI, I took one, single statin, and got back shakes and one calf-muscle ached for a couple minutes. Scared me of course so no more of that. Then I had ordered some Red Yeast Rice, but read further on the RYR, and found it can have the same side-effects so canceled the order.

My new doctor gave me a High-Five she was so excited I wanted to try a statin. I got the feeling she truly believes they are ok, or she’s counting on money from Big Pharma.

God ole mighty, I just wish I didn’t have to have this issue at all :disappointed_relieved:

(Joey) #51

Ha! This always trips me up too… a ratio is a ratio, right?

Well, then again… various ratios produce different results depending on what the ratio is actually getting at. E.g., if it’s a ratio constructed to produce density, then the meaning of that result will differ from a ratio constructed to produce volume.

And so, although they’re both ratios, the interpretation of what’s a “good number” will differ.

Hope this help with the mental gymnastics. It seems to help me get over mine. :wink:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #52

I know–it gets confusing. Here’s more to blow your brain: 100 miles/gallon = 31,7 km/L!

And converseely, 100 km/L works out to about 227 mpg! :exploding_head:

(Denise) #53

Hey @lfod14,

Found this reply of yours from 2020, and really helped me to see it this a.m. I just decided I was too unwilling to change up and eat more carbs, but read about psyllium benefits so ordered some to try, plus take out some of my fats :wink:

I don’t need all the fat I’m eating, contrary to what others can get away with, so that’s what I’m going to try starting today, as always, thanks for all you time and help you give here, Denise

Here’s your reply I found, btw :slight_smile: I’ll also use myfitnesspal to log for a couple weeks to see how things change in my macros:
https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/need-help-lowering-ldl/103949/7?u=goldengirl52

(Bob M) #54

You’re most likely a lean mass hyper-responder (LMHR). If you had FH (familial hypercholesterolemia), that wouldn’t happen.

Dave Felman thinks this is a reasonable test of LMHRs: if your cholesterol plummets while eating carbs, you’re a LMHR.

Here’s one test like this for Nick Nortitz:

The study:

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(Denise) #55

I don’t know how I missed replying to you @E_P . I just can’t take the chance of ruining my T2 Diabetes numbers with adding carbs. I eat under 10 now so I probably could add a few safely, but would like to avoid that is I can. My total cholesterol is 587 and I just decided to try Niacin “regular flush” as I’d forgotten I used it when a doctor said I had high C, some years before Keto.

I remember it was about 300, and with Niacin, and oatmeal to 260 I think it was. I didn’t know a thing about the Trig ratio back then, and certainly not the Keto diet.

Anyway, I wanted to mention the Niacin to you. I just started it, but I’d be glad to keep in touch with you and let you know if it works. I’m making it through the flushes, which last about 2 hours. The schedule I’m following is from someone who did it successfully.

Here’s 2 reviews I read, and this person seems intelligent, but I am open to feedback on their info. I do need to say that it’s best if you get some opinions before try this if you decide to. Some people didn’t read anything about the Niacin “flush” specifically, and I think it’s best to read the good, bad and ugly reviews on it, just my opinion

And I’ll add to anyone who is all for high cholesterol, and basically against “natural alternatives” to lower it, please don’t derail the thread, and stick to the topic. Thanks much, as I respect everyone’s rights to believe in, because of their own good experiences, I just want mine respected as well :wink: denise PS both reviews, again, are from Amazon.

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(E P) #57

@Goldengirl52 One hundred percent agree not risking T2 again with carbs! The 50g carbs trial flared my RA, so that can’t be my solution either. I’m testing psyllium, glucomannan (technically carbs, but my glucose and ketones are still good). Some people may be hyper responders to saturated fat or unfiltered coffee or IF…lots of factors to test. Also seen research on berberine and artichoke extract.

Just got back my latest labwork today actually. LDL is down to 122. Not sure which of the interventions worked, but statin free is good!

(Bob M) #58

Fiber, which is what psyllium, glucomannan are, should also lower LDL. I felt terrible on berberine (I mean horrible), but maybe you won’t.

I’ve seen the idea that some people are hyper-responders to saturated fat, but I’ve seen no credible evidence of this. And, wow, would that be hard to test. Which saturated fat? And how would you add that in while removing something else? Especially since we don’t really eat “saturated fat” (unless you’re talking MCT oils), we eat things that have saturated fat in them. To get over 50% saturated fat, you need to get into dairy. Meat is <50% saturated fat and in fact is mainly MUFA.

Something like cacao butter might get up there for long-chain saturated fats, but then you’re eating cacao butter. I did that when I was testing a high saturated fat diet, but it’s hard to eat.

Oh yeah, and calories matter. If you eat high calorie, your LDL will likely decrease, whereas if you eat low calorie, your LDL will likely increase (because LDL transports fat energy around and if you’re eating a ton of calories, you don’t need LDL as much).

(Denise) #59

I’ll let folks here know how I do on the Niacin, I’ve got a lot of hope on that. The flush has already began to lessen, and that means I can increase the dose. Most articles I’ve read say 2000 mg is as much as anyone should take, you have to work up to it. That would be 4 of my 500 mg, wish me luck, I’m sure I need some to succeed in getting back to my typical 300 Total C, but we’ll see :wink: